In 1952 there were 57,628 cases of polio in the United States. In 1957, four years after mass public vaccinations began in that country, there were 5,300 reported cases of polio. By 1988 polio had all but disappeared in the US, UK, Australia and much of Europe.
Granted, I don’t have degrees in science or medicine, but I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the near eradication of this disease in countries that have used aggressive vaccination polices is probably not coincidental.
In case you don’t know what polio looks like, here ya go:
In 1962 there were over 500,000 reported cases of measles. The first measles vaccine was introduced that same year. By 1970 cases of measles had dropped to 47,000. In 2004 there were 37 cases.
And then something happened. Let’s call that “something” Dr. Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy. One of them published a blatantly flawed paper about the link between vaccines (MMR to be specific) and autism. The other one went on a crusade to spread said crap. So, it is not coincidence that we suddenly saw a spike in measles and in 2008 we saw 140 cases.
Now I’d like to show you some “worst case scenario” pictures of the measles but that would involve dead and blind children and, well, you can just conjure up those images yourself.
Stop for a moment and imagine a world that is still ravaged by diseases like this. Seriously, think about it. Think about Charleston South Carolina where in one year, pre measles vaccine, 900 children died. NINE HUNDRED. CHILDREN.
We are unbelievably fortunate to be able to protect ourselves and our children from diseases that just decades ago disfigured, blinded and killed on a rather large scale.
I know this is a hot topic and there is a lot of information, a lot of it crap, out there to sift through. I support people making decisions based on logic and science. I believe in being passionate in what you believe (or don’t believe). But I do not support people using fear mongering to try and defend those choices. I believe that if you have to resort to those kinds of tactics that you have probably made a questionable decision.
Here is a fact that you can’t deny, no matter how many crack pot articles you show me – when vaccination rates fall epidemics follow and people (including children) get sick and/or die. When vaccination rates improve outbreaks cease. It doesn’t get much simpler or more logical that this.
Now I understand that there are new vaccines being developed every day and people have concerns about the safety and effectiveness of them. That makes sense. It sometimes feels like we are blindly following the medical/scientific main stream community when we don’t have all the information we need to make an informed decision. But I don’t buy in to the tactics that some anti vaccinators use to defend their ways. I don’t believe that the only reason vaccinations exist is to pad the pockets of pharmaceutical companies. I don’t believe the herd mentality an excuse to not vaccinate is safe or even sane. Because your unvaccinated kid can still give my vaccinated kid the measles. The measles vaccine is about 95% effective so even if you don’t want to admit it, your choice to not protect your own kids can kill another kid.
You are fortunate enough to have the right to vaccinate as you see fit. So if you choose not to vaccinate your children and they don’t die or get permanently injured from things like the measles, polio and diphtheria I won’t expect a thank you card because I’m thinking social grace is not your strong suit. But I will smile at your healthy children that I helped protect by vaccinating mine and silently say “You’re welcome.”
Thank you for your post! As a medical professional I struggle on a daily basis with correcting misinformation that people receive. I do believe that everyone is entitled to make their own decisions regarding their healthcare, however they should be making these decisions based on facts, not fraud and fearmongering.
I would like to further point out regarding Mr Wakefield’s study linking the measles vaccine to autism, that it has now been shown to be a completely fraudulent study, and all the medical journals that had previously published it have fully retracted the study. Furthermore, Mr Wakefield has been banned from practicing medicine any further. We are now left to clean up the mess made by his promotion of not vaccinating our children. A problem that we shouldn’t even need to be dealing with in the first place.
He was doing it for financial gain for his own business interests – that is why he was struck off the medical register
u know this for a fact
Yes, actually, we do. It was through the investigative work of Brian Deer. http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347
Why does that 1998 study keep on being found to be correct, if it was so falsified?
New Published Study Verifies Andrew Wakefield’s Research on Autism – Again
Brian Deer and The GMC, Selective Hearing. BMJ Journalisthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id_AxZ3zHAc
The world of science typically squashes those who do not conform with the herd. It does not surprise me that Dr Wakefield’s findings were attacked by fellow scientists and summarily rejected. If you ever witnessed the process of how scientific findings become accepted fact, you would be appalled at the process. It is a bully based system rift with gang mentality and punitive consequences, which Dr Wakefield was indeed subjected to. Sadly we the sheeple tend to do as we are told because somebody with a few letters behind their name says it is the right thing to do.
Or he was just wrong.
Is it then, just a sad and ironic coincidence that the levels of autism have risen, in some areas more than 200%, in areas populated with and associated with the highest vaccinated ? Austism was hardly ever heard of before the mid 70’s and now is rampant and part of our daily childhood disease and mental illness treatment plans…right up there with ADD and ADHD. Please don’t tell me it has always been present just not correctly diagnosed, I don’t buy it. There are higher end spectrums, Aspbergers Syndrome, etc and the list continues. SOMETHING triggered this event…it didn’t just come out of the blue at our children. I don’t buy that ANY thing containing formaldehyde and or mercury at ANY levels is good for a body…really? The people who CREATE the vaccines won’t take them…THAT in and of itself speaks volumes to me. Yes, my children are vaccinated..but I will not let them take 5 at a time…it worries me letting their body fight 2…the MMR is 3..THAT is enough. I draw the line with ONE shot and if the dr’s office wants to argue I find a different dr. Their immune systems are young and depending on the time of the year they may be deficient of other vital vitamins needed to fight these attacks given by these vaccinations. I have very mixed feelings but do see their need..but also see the need for CONTROL and NOT over vaccinations, ie: 3, 5, 7 shots at once to get them “caught up”. I think THAT is irresponsible.
A. “I don’t buy that ANY thing containing formaldehyde and or mercury at ANY levels is good for a body” does that mean you don’t eat fruit like pears or fish? Not to mention that your own body produces formaldehyde as part of your metabolism.
B. It worries you that your children get multiple vaccines – to remind you, your children – like all of us – fight many, many germs each day. And of all the challenges to their immune system, it’s the minute challenge the vaccines pose you’re worried about? A situation where they’re exposed to tiny amounts of partial, dead or weakened organisms? I think you should reconsider.
C. “Is it then, just a sad and ironic coincidence that the levels of autism have risen, in some areas more than 200%, in areas populated with and associated with the highest vaccinated ? Austism was hardly ever heard of before the mid 70′s and now is rampant and part of our daily childhood disease and mental illness treatment plans…right up there with ADD and ADHD” It’s not about what you “buy”. The diagnosis criteria for autism was broadened in the 1990s: fact. Awareness has risen and we can identify better: fact. So yes, it’s completely unclear there was any rise. And the connection to vaccines was examined in many, many studies across different countries, with different independent teams. No link was found. It’s an empirical question, and it was answered: vaccines are not connected to autism.
Here Here. This is what I think however through my research splitting up vaccinations is becoming more and more non existent. Thank you very much government. And now being punished for vaccinating but not the way the Government wants us to as it is not on their money schedule. Thanks again. My kids are never sick and I believe it is because of not bombarding their bodies with too many vaccines at once…….but no …..this doesn’t make money for the government so I am being punished with the removal of child care rebates. Thanks for nothing…………I’m a tax payer too so I shouldn’t be punished.
Anonymous, do you understand that by splitting up the vaccines, your child will receive more adjuvants and preservatives.
Treating children with infectious diseases (many do need hospital care) costs more than vaccines. This is one reason the government has been paying an incentive to encourage parents to vaccinate. The only recent change is that conscientious and religious objection have been removed.
Scientists in the field of immunology have conducted the research on the design of the vaccines and the best time to give them. There is a very good reason for the ingredients and for combining the vaccines.
I am neurodivergent. For you to imply that vaccines have anything to do with being neurodivergent is completely and utterly ableist. The reason autism wasn’t as heard of back then is because it was (and still is!) criminally underdiagnosed. We discover new symptoms and signs all the time because it is often hard to figure out what is autism and what is just hyperactivity in children. POC and women are very underdiagnosed when it comes to autism because the symptoms and examples we have laid out are for white men, meaning white men are more often diagnosed with autism than others. Vaccines do not affect your brain, neurodivergency does. They are completely different areas of the body. For you to not only demonize disability but push aside the struggles of us dealing with those disabilities as “caused by vaccines” is complete and utter crap. We are not a disease or a burden just because our brains develop differently, stop treating us as such.
Its’ MR Wakefield. Not Dr.
100% agree Mr. NOT Dr.
Kat Mattice, with all due respect, I think you have misrepresented the world of science and the scientific method. Every new hypothesis is attacked by other scientists in every field of science. All the currently accepted theories in science from the Boson-Higgs particle, evolution, quantum theory and relativity were deeply disliked and rejected by other scientists. In fact when Higgs first suggested the idea of his particle he was ridiculed by the scientific community, he’s now up for a Nobel prize.
What makes these theories so strong is that every opposing scientist has attempted to prove them wrong and failed. Scientific data must be replicable, so people tried to find proof of Wakefields research, they found none, they attempted a lot of very clever blind tests to avoid bias and found that his data didn’t make sense. They would also attempt to disprove the theory by analyzing currently vaccinated children autism rates between countries with and without vaccines etc. There is a brilliant set of videos explaining all this on the khan academy called “Vaccines and the Autism Myth”.
What really convinces the scientific community isn’t authority, somebody with a few letters behind their name is in fact one of the worst forms of evidence followed by anecdotes and eye witness accounts. Einstein really didn’t accept quantum physics he spent years trying to prove it wrong, he failed, it’s now one of the most exciting arms of physics, even the authority of Einstein didn’t stop it becoming that, because the data, evidence and experimentation speaks louder than the person.
The real problem is as you say the sheeple who tend to listen to anecdotes, scaremongering and emotive stories, usually backed by lawyers attempting lawsuits or grieving parents who have been woefully misinformed. One of the real ironies is that the anti-vaccine group always talk about Wakefield but he only ever said that MMR was a problem (he had a patent on the alternative) he’s on record saying he never suggested that individual or other vaccines were in any way dangerous and people should use them.
What do you mean they found none? Here’s a study that verifies Wakefield’s findings.
Scientists and physicians from Wake Forest University, New York, and Venezuela, reported findings that not only confirm the presence of intestinal disease in children with autism and intestinal symptoms, but also indicate that this disease may be novel. Using sophisticated laboratory methods Dr. Steve Walker and his colleagues endorsed Wakefield’s original findings by showing molecular changes in the children’s intestinal tissues that were highly distinctive and clearly abnormal.
Ah but two studies do not a consensus make. Particularly when the vast majority of the scientific literature, including the highest quality studies with the best controls, find no evidence of said link.
Just so everyone knows, this article does virtually nothing to link autism and vaccines. This article only takes 25 subjects that already have either autism or ASD AND intestinal problems, then shows that there are gastric differences with 8 subjects with only GI problems (not ASD).
How the hell you think this proves Wakefield correct when HUNDREDS of researchers combined couldn’t replicate his findings and found him GUILTY of 3 dozen charges, including academic dishonesty and abuse of developmentally challenged children.
Furthermore, the research was funded by the loaded Jane Johnson Foundation, which thrives on keeping autism in the national spotlight, despite increasing numbers of misdiagnoses and diagnosis changes that they ignore in their quest to get bigger and bigger donations. They do good with what they have, but they’re in absolutely no way unbiased. And when their pockets can be further padded with more links, more diagnoses, more drama, any research they fund should be suspiciously scrutinized.
Yeah, not only does that not verify wakefield’s findings as it has nothing to do with MMR vaccine, but it was authored by one of Wakefield’s partners at Thoughtful House. It’s important that Wakefield’s fraudulent work be replicated by someone other than his buddies. Fool me once…
See THE AUTISM ENIGMA on the CBC The Nature Of Things.
It explains the digestive tract of people with ASD are teaming with a particularly nasty strain of Clostridium that bombard the brain with neuro-toxins and cause an over growth of white matter.
The clostridum can only be killed with a constant supply of vancomycin.
Vancomycin treament resulted in a dramatic reduction in ASD symptoms and increased communication and acquisition of life skills.
When the vanco. is withdrawn the clostridium returns as do the ASD symptoms.
Parents in the know give their ASD children high dose probiotics to crowd out the clostridium and reduce their bombardment of neuro-toxins.
We give our son high dose probiotics and have noted a marked improvement in his communication, digestive function, stress and coping and life skills.
We don’t know what caused the overpopulation of clostridium and that is the area science needs to study, not vaccines.
Vaccine Shedding-You will never look at vaccinated children the same again.
Whooping Cough Outbreaks in Vaxed Children More and More Frequent
Why All The Measles Outbreaks…
Measles Facts, by ROBERT S. MENDELSOHN, M.D.
Whooping Cough Outbreaks in Vaxed Children More and More Frequent
Outbreaks of Measles in Vaccinated Children Intensifying
Atypical measles – a new phenomenon only in the vaccinated
Continuing measles outbreaks signal increasing incidence comparable with the prevaccine era.
THE DILEMMA OF VACCINE-INDUCED DISEASE AND UNVACCINATED CHILDREN
Is the pertussis vaccine causing the recent outbreaks?
Silent Reservoirs for Pertussis Infection
Measles Vaccines Part I; Ineffectiveness of Vaccination and Unintended Consequences. ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD) – See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/18/the-ineffectiveness-of-measles-vaccines-and-other-unintended-consequences-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/
Measles Vaccines Part II; Benefits of Contracting Measles ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD)
Post Vaccination – Vaccine Targeted Strain – Viral and Bacterial Pathogen – Shedding
October 12, 2013 at 4:21 pm
Ah but two studies do not a consensus make. Particularly when the vast majority of the scientific literature, including the highest quality studies with the best controls, find no evidence of said link.
A complete analysis of all of the main epidemiological studies that they at the CDC, claim to showing no connection between Vaccines and ASD. Clearly those studies are unreliable, and they as well amount to nothing more than statistical junk science; based on flawed study designs, unreliable data, a high amount of bias; and funding by sources with an obvious and clear interest in not finding any connection.
Part 1: Vaccines and Autism – What Do Epidemiological Studies Really Tell Us?
Part 2: Vaccines and Autism – What Do Epidemiological Studies Really Tell Us?
Wow Lowell, that’s quite the dump – of crap links and conspiracy twaddle.
Age of Autism? Since when are they science? (Since when are they reliable?)
All I see is crank site after crank site.
umm did you post the wrong link? this stidy is about properly showing the difference between GI, IBD, and other now molecular identifiable intestinal issues, instead of calling them all ASDGI problems. it states the amount of children with autism with GI issues is only nominally different to non autistic children. there is no link to immunization in this article, and no attempt to even state that children with autism are at greater risk. GI has been linked to multioke factors including low birth weighr and time spent breast feeding, and I elieve these are one off studies, so no realible reason has been found. where is the correlation to immunization found in this study?
You said it wrong… it’s the Higgs-Boson Particle, not the Boson-Higgs Particle.
Oops, I used the French Boson de Higgs, or Boson-Higgs, we were talking about it at my school (I live in France at the moment). Most romance languages say it that way round. Thanks for pointing it out though, I’m sure nobody knew what I meant without your help :-P.
Anon, that’s super relevant to this conversation.
Thank you for your well-written and most important, sane response.
As the writer pointed out, no one is saying that every new vaccine should be assumed safe and/or necessary, but when it comes to decades-old vaccines that have all but eradicated epidemics, I’m on the side of science and not superstition.
Kat- do you know how to conduct research??? If not- at least get educated about causality probably this will eventually change your mind or… Your response
Yes I do know how research is conducted and I am educated. By what I’ve read here, the sheeple have reacted in the exact manner I predicted. Have any of you even bothered to watch the documentary link I posted?
Dunning-Kruger. You’ve got it in spades.
Sheeple – drink
Newton – maverick. Science accepted because it worked
Einstein – maverick. Science accepted because the maths worked and initial tests showed some evidence
Marshal – maverick. Given Nobel prize. In only afew years changed how ulcers were treated.
Yep, science hates change doesn’t it?
On the other hand we have pseudoscience and alt medicine.
No testing. Any dissent is because you are a “sheeple”. Not once has alt medicine ever turned over a major theory of actual science.
I don’t see a documentary link above. But even if I did, why would I watch it? Why is it that antivaxers can’t just link to reputable research instead of subjecting people to Youtube videos? The answer is because it’s so much easier to pull an emotional smoke-and-mirrors act in a movie.
I’m sorry, Kat. But if you were educated, as you say, you wouldn’t be referring to your fellow human beings as “sheeple”, therefore, you are refering to me and everyone on this site. If we were all just people following blindly like sheep, then none of us would be on this site or bother reading the information we are given. I, like the author, have no medical or scientific background, but I have children who cause me to do a WHOLE LOT of reading, especially on vaccinating. It’s easy to fight against the cause, but how easy would it be to watch your child, or a loved one’s child, fight these awful diseases. It seems everyone always says they would do anything to keep their child(ten) safe and healthy, but that doesn’t seem true when your run the risk of letting your child suffer from these easily preventable, yet extremely devastating illnesses. Under all this debate is the simple (and NON-scientific) fact, that if these diseases came back, the people debating all of this info don’t really have to worry. You’re safe. Your kids are not. I don’t particularly enjoy watching my children have big needles jabbed into their arms, but the outcome is a no brainer. They now have a chance to fight the impending plagues that could very possibly return from people not vaccinating. It’s impossible to know what will come to pass, but I have my opinions, as everyone else does. And just because I have made the decision to follow what most people do, doesn’t mean I haven’t done my research, and it definitely doesn’t mean I or anyone else in the same boat should be referred to as “sheeple”. Have some respect when debating your point, and you might get a warmer audience.
” By what I’ve read here, the sheeple have reacted in the exact manner”
The sheepie fallacy. Just because you are in a minority cult doesn’t make you any less of a sheep. Being subject to fear mongering and accepting claims without critical review makes you a sheep. Accepting a popular position because it has evidence behind it doesn’t imply one is a sheep.
Whether someone is a sheep or not has no logical bearing on their position.
Sheeple are people that deprive their children of life saving vaccines because a playboy centerfold told them to.
This made me laugh… awesome comment. Cheers!
Not the kind of site I thought. Your just another ignorant person. Just remember Karma is a bitch. I have found in my 50 years, people that have not experienced a real tragedy in their life can’t weigh out the importance of normal things. So alot of what your doing is just socializing and there is better web sites for you there and you can act like a bitchy child and talk about people too. theres many people like you there. Your so ignorant your way off base. you shouldnt be talking about my typing errors, the real issues is vaccines. Did you forget. If you take a look at yourself and what your really on here for, I know you’ll find your way off base.
Two words: Gene Tierney
People who demonstrate a reckless disregard for 21st century public health and safety, shit all over very real anguish, massive loss of life due to contagions, and personal sacrifices that all our ancestors made. As the current suspicion surrounding vaccinations seems to be predominantly-US driven, as an Australian, I have to ask?
What the FUCK is going on over there?
Here is some research, and actually that should be considerably troubling, and for any parent forced to give their child the MMR vaccine.
Clin Infect Dis. 1999 Oct;29(4):855-61.
Measles inclusion-body encephalitis caused by the vaccine strain of measles virus.
Bitnun A, Shannon P, Durward A, Rota PA, Bellini WJ, Graham C, Wang E, Ford-Jones EL, Cox P, Becker L, Fearon M, Petric M, Tellier R.
Department of Critical Care Medicine, The Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
We report a case of measles inclusion-body encephalitis (MIBE) occurring in an apparently healthy 21-month-old boy 8.5 months after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination. He had no prior evidence of immune deficiency and no history of measles exposure or clinical disease. During hospitalization, a primary immunodeficiency characterized by a profoundly depressed CD8 cell count and dysgammaglobulinemia was demonstrated. A brain biopsy revealed histopathologic features consistent with MIBE, and measles antigens were detected by immunohistochemical staining. Electron microscopy revealed inclusions characteristic of paramyxovirus nucleocapsids within neurons, oligodendroglia, and astrocytes. The presence of measles virus in the brain tissue was confirmed by reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction. The nucleotide sequence in the nucleoprotein and fusion gene regions was identical to that of the Moraten and Schwarz vaccine strains; the fusion gene differed from known genotype A wild-type viruses.
Callous Disregard – Research References
Additionally, why did not anyone note the 32 research references that were attached to this study, which do connect the MMR with the same findings in the same findings as said the Wake Forest University study.
Identification of Unique Gene Expression Profile in Children with Regressive Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and Ileocolitis http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058058#references
Yeah, the MMR can cause encephalitis in 1 in 1,000,000 cases.
The measles can cause encephalitis in 1 in 1000 cases.
Not seeing the problem with the MMR odds, there.
Why don’t we as adults get ‘booster’ shots….?
Sure love like minded individuals who research and study. Hope we can run across eachother on FB 🙂
Several independent studies exist that clearly show the said brain inflammation found as well in this below Journal of Neuroinflammation 2013 study, to be directly caused by vaccines, and specifically aluminum adjuvants combined secondarily with antigen. This as well is what Dr. Russell Blaylock has pointed out for already years now, and as he outlines in his website, under the section, published papers. Vaccination, and repeat vaccination can cause over activation of the brains microglia cells, (which are essential part of the brains separate immune system), and thus additionally can cause chronic levels of brain inflammation.
Several independent studies exist that clearly show the said brain inflammation found as well in this below Journal of Neuroinflammation 2013 study, to be directly caused by vaccines, and specifically aluminum adjuvants combined secondarily with antigen. This as well is what Dr. Russell Blaylock has pointed out for already years now, and as he outlines in his website, under the section, published papers. Vaccination, and repeat vaccination can cause over activation of the brains microglia cells, (which are essential part of the brains separate immune system), and thus additionally can cause chronic levels of brain inflammation.
Some studies have shown the direct link to vaccines, and other studies like this one have simply pointed out the finding of this inflammation in the brain of those with ASD, and as well ADHD. Interestingly in neither of the two studies I find addressing only the inflammation found in ASD; did they ever in that study even suggest a causation, other than this one here, and in which they refer to the likely causation as likely to be environmental. Why is this so called inflammation syndrome not found in the never vaccinated, then? Are they studying that at all. Nope. All they seem to be concerned with is novel treatments and or development of drugs to treat the condition with. In fact in the conclusion of this study they state the following.
Focal brain inflammation and autism
The independent and unbiased vaccine safety science. Do not say it i s not there, as there is a long list on this page.
Viral Video from The Canary Party Highlights the Failures Reported by Families of the U.S. Vaccine Injury Compensation Program to Perform its Intended Role
The Betrayal Felt by Families of Vaccine Injured Children
No Historical Benefit in Vaccines: Polish Study http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/no-historical-benefit-vaccines-polish-study
Glutathione, Tylenol, Vaccine Adverse Reactions, and ASD http://www.vacfacts.info/glutathione-tylenol-vaccine-adverse-reactions-and-asd.html
The Unbiased Vaccine Science and Data
You serious?!?! Do you even have a bleeping clue how he conducted his so-called study. It was a huge scam you “just another uneducated” idiot. You really make me sick that you haven’t even read the article!
Stop being so close minded. Please!! Can you explain to me why families everyday experience vaccine injuries? Hmm? Where is the explanation? There are families being awarded compensation that link MMR vaccine to the cause of autism. There was two cases just in the last year, and both cases ruled that the cause of autism was from being administered the MMR vaccine. I myself have been injured due to a vaccine. So are we all a bunch of scam artists? Are we delusional to the fact that we were perfectly healthy up until the very day of being injected by a vaccine? Or are we just conspiracy theorists? I mean what else would you like to call us? Apparently, everyone is to busy arguing on whether Dr Wakefield studies were true or not. I can tell you one thing if the “fear mongering” of vaccines being unsafe are actually true, and scientists are fully aware of this including the big pharma companies. They would be doing everything they possibly can to cover it up. So what makes you think this isn’t a cover up? The point is none of us know. The only thing we can look at, and know for sure is the incidences that follow vaccinations. I’ve met several families who’s children have either died from SIDS shortly after being administered a vaccine, or caught the very disease they were vaccinated from. For example the mumps, and measles. I’ve read stories of children reaching all of their developmental milestones up until the day they received a vaccine, and their life was forever changed from that moment on. They were never the same child after that. What about the young women who have been effected by the gardasil vaccine? Come on now, it’s very unlikely that all of these stories are lies. Out of the thousands I’ve read just here online how can everyone of them be a lie? Are you trying to say that thousands of people are making these vaccine injuries up? If you read the package inserts to the vaccines it displays the side effects, and risks. SIDS is one of them!!! Try and explain your rational close minded views to a parent who found their child dead in their bed a few days after they were vaccinated. A child that had developed instant upper respiratory problems, and were told that it’s common, and everything will be okay. Explain to me how will I ever get my life back, now that I am living with the consequences of my choice to vaccinate? I can’t go back and make that decision again, and if I could I would have chose to be a healthy “uneducated idiot”.
Chel, you are not an idiot for having a dissenting view. In fact, the only people who ever changed wrongs in our history usually had theses views.
As a healthcare provider and researcher, I am on the fence with vaccines. I understand the greater good with eradicating disease, but I do not believe the pharmaceutical companies always have our best interest at heart. I was required by law to get the flu vaccine every year by virtue of my profession. So for 3 straight years I received the flu vaccine and with in 12 hours of getting the shot I was violently ill, and with the last treatment I was hospitalized. I am not allergic to eggs so the doctors thought I was having a significant reaction to the vaccine itself. I am now exempt from receiving the vaccine. I also do not believe vaccines cause autism, but rather they are a stress trigger to a system that has a weak immune system. Based on what I know about auto immune research, I believe (my opinion only) that autism is an auto immune disorder that needs a trigger to set it in motion, not unlike lupus, celiac disease, etc. I also believe that the physicians in this country should independently re-evaluate the vaccination schedule in this country because it is the most aggressive and not based entirely on fact. For instance, babies do not need to get the Hepatitis vaccine 24 hours after birth unless the mother has Hepatitis. I could go on with all the other examples, but no on likes to read long posts.
Furthermore, I agree that there is a bully system in research. I live it every day and there is miss information out there and it is hard to argue with unless you have a large grant and a lot of support on your side. Just watch the documentary “NFL: A League of Denial.” It was a great documentary based on bullying and corporate influence into medicine and unfortunately, it is not uncommon.
Chel and Researcher: two voices of reason, thank you.
The detail that gets left out of the anti-vaccines stance on Former Dr. Wakefield, is that he was trying to proved that the MMR caused autism, to support a measles only vaccine that he was trying to develop. So, the biggest thing anti vaccines can point to was a man who was a fraud, yet wanted to make a vaccine.
The guy came out and flat out admitted his findings were wrong!
Um.. what? LOL. Actually, he has continued more research and has a new study of the MMR booster, which again, demonstrates a link between the MMR and autism. Holy heck please go read a book. Below is an interview with him. Again, his findings have been replicated in other studies. Oh boy.
This comment by this alleged “educated person” needs to be seriously reconsidered. First and foremost if you had enough intelligence to actually look into the case and the proceedings (which obviously you have not), then you would understand that it was proven WITHOUT A DOUBT mind you, that pathetic MR. Wakefield WAS FOUND GUILTY of having subjected autistic children to UNNECESSARY LUMBAR PUNCTURES, which you probably are unaware is an EXTREMELY PAINFUL procedure. Furthermore, he was found to NOT HAVE DISCLOSED a grotesque conflict of interest, having been HIRED BY A GROUP OF LAWYERS who were interested in filing a class action law suit against the manufacturers of the MMR vaccine, and who had found a group of individuals who had autistic children, who were ALL TOO EAGER to figure out a way to place the blame on the company and to receive punitive damages in return!!!! It is also worth noting that HE FILED A PATENT A YEAR BEFORE THE STUDY WAS PUBLISHED FOR A MMR VACCINE THAT WOULD PICK UP THE MARKET SHARE ONCE HE SHUT DOWN THE OTHER MANUFACTURER!!!! HIS STUDY mind you, was conducted on ONLY 12 autistic children! AND WERE YOU AWARE that the 12 autistic children were NOT RANDOMLY CHOSEN, BUT WERE SPECIFICALLY SENT TO HIM BY THE LAW FIRM FROM WHICH HE HAD ACCEPTED MONEY TO CARRY OUT THE STUDY IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?! SINCE HIS STUDY, there have been multiple studies carried out on over a million autistic children around the world and NONE HAVE EVER DETERMINED A LINK!!!! Oh and by the way, I watched you video, so lets get that out of the way right now, that video was NOT POSTED BY A REPUTABLE SOURCE at all! You want to know what really happened, and to actually educate yourself? Here is a synopsis of what actually happened, and also some links to some ACTUAL REPUTABLE DATA!
Wakefield AJ, et al. Lancet 1998;351:637-641.
•Flawed study that suggested that MMR causes autism
•Numerous studies have been conducted, on a larger scale, that do not support the Wakefield findings
–Madsen KM, Hviid A, Vestergaard M, et al. A population-based study of measles, mumps, rubella vaccination in autism. N Engl J Med 2002;347:1477-1482.
–Kaye JA, Melero-Montes M, Jick H, et al. Mumps, measles, rubella vaccine and the incidence of autism recorded by general practitioners: A time trend analysis. BMJ 2001;322:460-463.
–Farrington CP, Miller E, Taylor B, et al. MMR and autism: Further evidence against a causal association. Vaccine 2001;19:3632-3635.
•You may access the original article (which was retracted by the Lancet) by clicking on the citation above
Wakefeild study was done on 12 children, and proposed that the MMR vaccine was causing intestinal inflammation, and the inflammation was making the gut more permeable to a mystery protein that reached the bran and caused autism.
1. Autism symptoms were occurring before gut symptoms
2. Could not find mystery protein causing autism by getting across inflamed gut
With MMR vaccines, there were 2 studies (one that looked at vaccine rates in the UK over 6 years, and one that looked at Vaccine rates in the US over 15 years, and found that in both studies, vaccine rates were remaining the same, while rates of Autism were increasing!
Another study that was done in Canada over 12 years that showed that Vaccine rates in Canada were going down, while Autism rates were going up!
Public not satisfied, so an additional study was done in the UK on 473 autistic children, mainly looking to see if there was a link between the vaccine, and any sort of gut inflammation, and the answer they found was a resounding NO!
Then another study in the UK was done on 262 autistic children looking to see if there was a link between the Gut inflammation, and Autism, and the study found no association at all whatsoever! So now the two important components of the wakefeild study were null, and still no study could find the mystery protein suggested to cause autism.
This was still no good enough, and people said well maybe the MMR vaccine is causing autism by a whole other mechanism!
So then another study was done in the UK looking specifically at autism and MMR vaccines, to see if there was a link between the two by another mechanism, and they did the study on 71 autistic children, and found that there was NO relationship!
Then another study in Finland was done with 309 autistic children, looking for a link between MMR vaccine and Autism, and found none
Then another study was done in the US looking at the same thing in 624 autistic children, and found NO LINK!
SILLY PEOPLE STILL DIDN’T BELIEVE THERE WAS NO LINK!
So a final study in Finland decided to do a prospective study, and follow 1.8 million children who were getting vaccinated, and follow them over time to see if there is a link, and so they followed these kids, over time, and found a total of ZERO vaccine associated autism cases!
Then in 2004, 10 of the 13 authors of the original wakefeild study, retracted their statements and said they made a mistake, and then a British investigative journalist named Brian Deer decided to look into where the original results of the study had come from, and then he discovered that in 1996, a team of lawyers wanting to file a giant lawsuit against the MMR vaccine manufacturers, paid Wakefeild a crap load of money to carry out this study directly!
To make shit worse, a year later, Wakefeild filed a patent on a vaccine that would have competed with the MMR vaccine, so his plan was to ruin the reputation of the current MMR vaccine, and then to be set up to take over the MMR market after destroying the competition!
Then between 2007-2010: General medical council does an investigation, and determines that Wakefield was Dishonest and that the way he had picked his patients was by the lawyers putting him in touch with patients that were very interested in suing the MMR vaccine manufacturer, and that he had not gotten ethical clearance to carry out his research. He had also lied about his financial interests, was negligent and performed lumbar punctures on autistic children that did not need them (pretty twisted!), and had been medically negligent to the autistic children in his study, and finally that he was unskilled, and had no business working on kids, because he was not a pediatrician, but was a general practitioner, and a surgeon. He also was determined to have changed dates of incidents, and to have changed what the hospital records said about the gut inflammation!
SO IN CLOSING, the next time that you decide to open your computer, and to start google searching BS, I only ask that you resist that primal urge, and instead do some ACTUAL RESEARCH on a topic, because otherwise, you are JUST AS POISONOUS to the community that you live in as OLD MAN WAKEFIELD was to the world!!!
Have a healthy day!
The lead researcher, Stephen J. Walker, Ph.D., was also quick to state however, that this does not necessarily mean the MMR vaccine causes autism.
…sounds like the article you posted doesn’t “prove” anything! …But for the low low price of $80-100, you can find out if your child has abnormal gut flora, which may or may not have anything to do with anything.
Another study supporting what Wakefield found (that there may be an impaired gut-autism connection):
Impaired Carbohydrate Digestion and Transport and Mucosal Dysbiosis in the Intestines of Children with Autism
BE IT NOTED, by all present, that An ACTUAL Educated Person, by posting an accurate and information-rich response to a silly and tendentious post linking to (God help us) mercola.com, has performed a public service of such value that he or she is hereby exempt from any opprobrium which might otherwise have resulted from his or her use of ALL CAPS in a post, and that An ACTUAL Educated Person is herewith invited to post again on this or any subject using upper- or lower-case as he or she sees fit.
Jeff, the idea that autistic children may have GI issues or even possibly impaired GI function is not particularly controversial, nor is it what needs replicating when it comes to Wakefield’s claims.
Why all the measles outbreaks in vaccinated children?
In how many vaccines has this been happening? Vaccination Campaign Doubles HBV Mutations
A complete analysis of all of the main epidemiological studies that they at the CDC, claim to showing no connection between Vaccines and ASD. Clearly those studies are unreliable, and they as well amount to nothing more than statistical junk science; based on flawed study designs, unreliable data, a high amount of bias; and funding by sources with an obvious and clear interest in not finding any connection.
Part 1: Vaccines and Autism – What Do Epidemiological Studies Really Tell Us?
Part 2: Vaccines and Autism – What Do Epidemiological Studies Really Tell Us?
Why is Neurotoxic Aluminum in Vaccines, (isn’t there after 80 years any better safer type of adjuvant?)
Aluminum Adjuvants – Lack of Safety Data – Lack of Aluminum Adjuvant Safety Studies, (a long list of them, right here).
Some real and independent studies on the safety of aluminum adjuvants. http://www.vacfacts.info/the-vaccine-damage—science.html
Pharmacol Toxicol. 1992 Apr;70(4):278-80.
Aluminium-adjuvanted vaccines transiently increase aluminium levels in murine brain tissue.
Redhead K, Quinlan GJ, Das RG, Gutteridge JM.
Source; Division of Bacteriology, National Institute for Biological Standards and Control, Herts., UK.
Aluminium is widely used as an adjuvant in human vaccines, and children can often receive up to 3.75 mg of parenteral aluminium during the first six months of life. We show that intraperitoneal injection of aluminium adsorbed vaccines into mice causes a transient rise in brain tissue aluminium levels peaking around the second and third day after injection. This rise is not seen in the saline control group of animals or with vaccine not containing aluminium. It is likely that aluminium is transported to the brain by the iron-binding protein transferrin and enters the brain via specific transferrin receptors.
Slow CCL2-dependent translocation of biopersistent particles from muscle to brain
Why has not the CDC and Offit looked into that any further?
Glutathione is a major player in detoxifying the body of many toxic pollutants, including toxic metals and chemicals. Glutathione deficiency impairs the body’s ability to get rid of toxins whether they are environmental or the by-products of cellular metabolism.
If we have low glutathione levels we slowly become toxic, storing away poisons in our tissues, organs, muscles and brain. We simply cannot detoxify effectively if our glutathione levels are too low, no matter what form of detoxification we undertake.
Glutathione is made by all the cells in the body, and is the body’s master antioxidant and detoxifying agent. In one review, almost 80% of people with chronic ailments were found to be deficient in glutathione. In fact, low levels of glutathione are involved in all disease states.
Why? – because the heavier the cumulative toxic burden on the body, the greater this depletes supplies of glutathione. For example: One molecule of mercury uses up one molecule of glutathione. Since all chronic, degenerative disorders are triggered, in part, by the toxic load, it is small wonder to see why glutathione levels are such an important marker.
Metabolic changes of glutathione in human T and B lymphocytes induced by organo-aluminum complex
Even though aluminium is not considered to be a heavy metal like lead, silver, arsenic and cadmium, it can be toxic when taken in excessive amounts and even in small amounts if deposited in the brain. Glutathione, a major antioxidant in the cells, so its depletion weakens the tissue resistance to oxidant. Glutathione is the sulfhydryl (-SH) antioxidant, antitoxin and enzyme cofactor which plays an important role in aluminum detoxification. The present study was designed to investigate the extent of changes in glutathione level by inorganic and organic alumni metal. Biocordination of aluminum acetylacetonate and aluminum sulphate with glutathione in T-cells and b-cells of lymphocytes have been described using Ellman’s method. The decline of glutathione level is due to increased aluminum concentration and time of incubation. The decline of glutathione level was consistent with increasing pH, while at physiological temperature, the drop was more significant. Our study indicates that changes in glutathione level produced by aluminium could be due to conjugate (Al-(SG)3) formation. This change in glutathione level endowed with information regarding mechanism of toxicity of aluminium inorganic and organic complexes. This study is important for the design of rational antidote for the prevention of aluminium toxicity.
Vaccine Shedding, (and they continue to deny this). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKSeiAs_A4w
MTHFR-Genetics, Autism, and Disease
These people the provaccine, and all vaccine more harm than good done denialists; are simply so brainwashed fed with the misinformation and wed to this backward dangerous modality of vaccinating, that absolutely no amount of logic nor actual independent science will show them nor clue them in to what is clearly obvious to any body capable of independent thought.
“Why all the measles outbreaks in vaccinated children”
Facts are obviously not your friend, Lowell. In the last decade, in the US – over 80% of measles cases have been in UNvaccinated individuals.
Why are you posting a study about an aluminum compound not found in vaccines? It’s not relevant.
I am one of those people with a few letters behind my name. I have dedicated over a decade to learning the science and art of medicine in school. I have spent even more time now practicing what I have learned. I am not here to condemn your beliefs, but as you would like me to see your perspective, I would like you to see mine. Have you ever met a child who has died because they were not vaccinated? I have. Have you ever met a mother whose child died from a disease, preventable through vaccine? I have. I challenge you to find a mother like this and talk to this mother. Have you ever met a child with autism? Have you met this child’s parents? I ask you to take a guess as to which mother is living a better, happier life.
The saddest, most difficult thing I see in my career is the death of a child. So I am sure you can imagine, that when a child dies, whose death could have been prevented, this is the worst day of most physicians’ careers. I will take an alive child over a dead child any day, no matter the circumstances.
I mist ask the question, Emily, – Have you ever had to witness a child dying or having an adverse reaction to a Vaccine? HPV reportedly killing more than 130 children so far. Other vaccines doing the same shortly after it is administered.
I certainly agree that unhealthy individuals – Whoever they are (An adult is just as important as a child) are hard on the “empathy bones” and extremely difficult to take. Just like giving a child the HPV vaccine and watching her die because of it.
Do Vaccines work? I don’t know – seems that there are many articles out there that state Polio was re-names after it was found that the vaccine didn’t work. Same with many other diseases. And IF we have indeed eradicated the Smallpox virus with vaccines – they why are people getting infected with it again.. if the Virus was eliminated – where did it come from?
so – Do the cavvines actually work? Well, the real answer is this.. Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the ingredients and the individual. And because of that , no one really knows what reaction your child or YOU will have to that MMR or HPV or Smallpox injection. Could be that you or your child dies on the spot after receiving – could be that you live a long a prosperous life. Me – I’m not taking the chance on the first outcome because the ingredients are not what we should be ingesting. Really – would you eat a monkey liver that was used to culture the vaccine? then WHY would you inject it straight into your bloodstream???? I do agree that the hardest thing to do on this planet is to watch your child die. And it’s a decision you have to make – take the chance with the vaccine or with good healthy food that supports and boosts the immune system. Someone once said – Let food be your medicine and let medicine be your food. But the Dr’s these days don’t pay any attention to that any more because Hippocrates doesn’t exist in the MD’s life any more – He also said – DO NO HARM and every Dr. had to take that oath in the way back machine.. They don’t any more because there is no way you can give a patient Pharmaceuticals and NOT do harm.
Being the father of two extremely healthy NON vaccinated children – I question vaccines. Or at least the ingredients in them I personally have had the Smallpox and other vaccines that were a “must” way back in the late 60’s or so.. still have the scar on my arm.. Did it do me any good? I don’t know. We decided to NOT have our children further vaccinated and they are very healthy. I have read studies from japan that claim Autism rates dropped drastically after they remover thimerisol from the vaccines.. Same with California – if I remember correctly. So maybe it is the MERCURY in the vaccine that is the cause of all this.. Not the monkey pus and snake venom. Don’t know. (said that they culture the vaccine on dead monkey kidneys – Sorry – I don’t want that in my system)
My personal belief is that with a healthy Immune system (Thanks Dr. Mercola and many other nutrition based websites, great reading and research) attained from the good food eaten – will keep a body healthy. All health issues I have personally come up against I have handles with natural methods. NOT medicine. Takes longer because I am going after the cause not just masking the symptom.
Stoneage- there are many things in your post that are incorrect, all of which have been addressed already in this comment section already, so I will not rehash. The one incorrect thing in your comment that hasn’t been addressed is the hippocratic oath- every doctor still takes that oath. It is not outdated, it is still very much present. I can’t speak for all doctors, but I myself still very much practice by “Do No Harm.” The problem is that nothing comes without risk. We all (speaking human beings, not just doctors) have to weigh risks and benefits of everything we do. Everything. Medicine has changed a lot over the years to where it is now a patient/family-centered approach. No longer do doctors dictate what happens and you blindly follow (except in the case of emergency life-threatening situations or bad physicians) – now we have discussions about risks, benefits, and alternatives. Yes every medicine comes with risks. So does not taking a medicine. Pharmaceuticals, from penicillin to cancer drugs, have done a lot of good over the years. Do they have side effects? You betcha. But again, sometimes it’s necessary to do a little harm to do a LOT of good. There’s no absolute. Nothing is 100%. So we do the best we can to care for the patients we care about. Because we do care, as much as your post seems to suggest we don’t. And I can’t speak for Emily, but I personally haven’t seen a child die from a vaccine. But I’ve seen children die from vaccine preventable illnesses.
Did any children die from taking the DPT vaccine? Of course they did, and endless numbers ended up with seizure disorders and neurologically damaged. Let me ask you, are all the deaths due to a claim of vaccine causation, in VAERS; are all of them in your beliefs mind, just coincidental? VAERS has a known as well only 1 to 10% reporting factor, do the math. And you are insinuating that it simply doesnt happen, or if it does it is rare? Like what 1 in 1 million vaccinations? They say the same thing about severe and disabling vaccine reactions, 1 in 1 million. If even 10% of the disabling reactions reported in VAERS were fact, that still amounts to far more than what the CDC has stated. They at the CDC are lying, and they know they are lying.
VAERS doesn’t work the way you seem to think it does. It is not evidence of causation. It’s simply a reporting tool.
“Have you ever had to witness a child dying or having an adverse reaction to a Vaccine?” Is a non-valid argument. Witnessing such a reaction does not establish a causation or a pattern–just that you saw something. To make a definitive statement you’d need data collected and analysed, subject to peer review and replication, where a link could be hypothesised and subject to falsification. I.e. science. Do vaccines pose some danger? Sometimes yes with very low frequency. Has HPV led to a number of deaths? I have not seen the science but it is possible; if you make the assertion the burden on you is to provide the evidence. The logical counter-argument is how many people were spared death by uterian cancer vs. death from the vaccine, and is that an acceptable ration for public health policy purposes. That would be an interesting debate. What you “saw” is not.
I like your point about which mother is living the happiest life.
You can’t argue with that statement, regardless of what the science does or doesn’t say.
yes we are like sheep to slaughter, what about the flu shot, screwed my immune system.
As someone who is part of the scientific community, I have to strongly disagree. The scientific community attacked the Wakefield paper because it was deeply flawed and employed terrible scientific methodology, not because the results were inconsistent with the currently accepted scientific facts. Things don’t become scientific facts because we want them to be true, they become scientific facts when, and only when, they have been able to stand up to rigorous testing and re-testing. Once sufficient evidence exists for a hypothesis, the scientific community will accept that hypothesis as true. This acceptance, however, is not unending. If new evidence comes to light that challenges the currently accepted hypothesis, the scientific community will re-evaluate that hypothesis, and if the evidence against it is substantial enough, it will revise its understanding and either accept the new hypothesis, or change the old one to be compatible with the new evidence. This is why science is great, because it is not dogmatic about what it believes, but rather follows the evidence to find out what the truth is, regardless of pre-conceived notions and prior beliefs.
That’s one nice thing about science – It is Wrong most of the time.. Only take s years to figure it out because of the scientific process. They believe the hypothesis and act accordingly until someone dies. Then they challenge it come up with a different conclusion and change their minds – Maybe. Sometimes the real results get hidden and the flawed science get published. Why – Because of Money. You want the real answer to the story – Use the insurance fraud investigator technique… FOLLOW THE MONEY. When you find out where the money goes – you will find your answer. Such as in Mr. Wakefields case.. He was paid to come up with a certain answer. I have read many aritcles since that back up his claims, but he was PAID to find this out so we cannot trust the finding. I mentioned in a previous post that it could have been the mercury in the vaccine that caused it all.. Was still administered by the company and the company is liable.
Biggest problem is that all science is paid for by someone who wants a specific outcome. So that outcome is given because the scientist has a mortgage and kids in college. After all – Who doesn’t want more grant money? Many scientists and Dr’s do NOT vaccinate either – Interesting fact.
So I would agree with you WHOLEHEARTEDLY KS, except that there is money involved. Once money is involved you have to follow it to find the real truth. There isn’t a business out there that is NOT interested in profits and shareholder dividends over ANYTHING ELSE. It is the corporate mandate and their reason for existence. If you do not believe me, then read a Pharma companies charter. IF they were interested in our health they wouldn’t be selling all those “lifesaving ” (gigglefest on that one) drugs in the USA for 10 to 100 times the cost of what you can buy them for in other countries.
i.e. retroviral drugs for AIDS patients in USA – upwards of 5k a month. In Africa – Maybe 35 bucks and they are STILL making a profit. They wouldn’t do it other wise. Unfortunately they have the entire medical educational system in their back pocket so I don’t see any change in this soon. Just try and find a Medical textbook that isn’t sponsored by a pharma company. Try and find a medical school that isn’t subsidised by pharma. They may exist, but none of the ones that matter are independent. Like I said Follow the money.. Maybe they are lying to the new medical students before they are able to make any kind of difference…
True healing and wellness takes place when the body has all the building blocks it needs to fix itself. That comes from good food. Pharma can help for short term, but will NOT long term- Your body needs good food. If you are true healer you WILL agree. If you were trained by Pharma – you may NOT agree. Sad thing is that because of pharma having such a HUGE place in the Medical field, a Dr. thatIS a true healer cannot because he jeopardizes his license because he actually CARES about his patient.
Stoneage I think you underestimate a lot of doctors. Especially pediatricians. If you were able to sit in on a day in my clinic, you would see that more of my time is spent talking to parents about healthy lifestyle choices (including proper nutrition) than handing out prescriptions for medicines. And yes I recommend breastfeeding to the parents of new infants- but some can’t breastfeed, and some flat out don’t want to. I’m not at all saying that we don’t overprescribe in this country, but some of that is from doctors who give in to parents wanting “an antibiotic” or “some medicine” that will help their child’s cold, when I routinely recommend rest and plenty of fluids. Most of us do truly care about our patients. We don’t go into pediatrics for money from big pharma – we go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt going to medical school and spend our entire lives paying it back because we make roughly the same amount after 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 3 years of residency as some of our business and engineering friends made right out of college (of course some make more or less than others, but you get my point). We don’t do it for the money, we don’t do it to feed into the pharmaceutical companies, we do it to help our nation’s children. I for one love it and wouldn’t change a thing. But I do take offense when someone tells me all my hard work and money spent was to become a glorified drug dealer, because that couldn’t be further from the truth.
Best rant on this topic ever. Summed up this black hole debate way more nicely than I could. The introduction of vaccines to our population is a mixed blessing – to which degree is yet uncertain. History will eventually show us the real effects of these cocktails in our system. After all, Monsanto and the makers of Thalidomide had their studies and Dr’s behind them too…
Speaking as someone who is in the scientific community, I can categorically say you have no idea what you are talking about. Wakefield discredited himself. His methodology was unforgivably bad, unethical with his undisclosed conflicts of interests and how he obtained his data, and in his attempt to discredit the MMR vaccine in order to make money from his own version through his own greed. No one has ever been able to replicate his ‘findings’, and not for lack of trying. It’s as simple as that.
Scientific research persists by people working against the grain. That’s how new discoveries are made, and funding is awarded. The only rules are that it needs to be scientifically reproducible and ethically sound. Wakefield’s work was not reproducible by peers and admitted to fraudulent manipulation of data. That’s why he was so swiftly and easily discredited and banned.
All I have to say is if its not YOUR CHILD, then it’s NOT YOU DECISION. Meet a parent who had a “normal” child before they were given the MMR and your opinion might change. I have met many and it is for real. Live a day with an autistic child and then say something.
Just because they happen around the same time does not mean one caused another. The MMR is given around the same time that signs of autism first become apparent. It’s coincidence. That doesn’t mean the vaccine caused autism. And most parents, in retrospect, can think of signs of autism that appeared long before their child received the vaccine. That is like saying that a child who is diagnosed with leukemia the day after they first ate fish got leukemia because of eating fish, when in actuality, one has nothing to do with the other. They just happened to happen around the same time.
So by your logic, just because incidents of polio decreased around the same time as the release of the polio vaccine, the two events are entirely unrelated, right?! Just coincidence as you state.
In fact, incidents of polio had indeed declined dramatically PRIOR to the release of the Salk vaccine, then suddenly spiked again AFTER the introduction of the vaccine (anybody who has done even casual research knows this). But that’s another matter altogether.
Before you just dismiss the experiences of thousands of parents, I would suggest you yourself spend more time reading up on the matter. You may enlighten yourself.
I apologize if this is a double post, since my last one seemed to go into the internet abyss. Actually, GD, I am “one of those people with letters after my name,” so I have read quite a deal on the matter. I am growing weary of everyone on this site telling everyone else to “read more” or “get educated.” The people who are passionate about the topic are the ones who flock to sites like this and post. I’m sure most people commenting have read a great deal. The problem is some of the misinformation that is cycling. I am by no means blameless, but the judgments flying around are exhausting, and I am hoping we can all just talk like civil adults who have varying viewpoints. And I by no means am trying to dismiss parents, though I think you missed my point. During my pediatric residency, we rotated through an Autism Clinic. I talked to countless parents of children with autism about their experiences- and a large majority stated that in retrospect, they saw signs of autism in infancy, long before they got their MMR vaccine. Most parents didn’t blame vaccines, and had come to accept the thing that is hardest for patients, families, and doctors to accept- that sometimes we just don’t know why things happen. Yet. We’re working on it. I don’t pretend to be an expert in the field because I’m not, but I have had a lot of experience to draw from. I’ve also experienced parents of patients in the ICU, on the ventilator because of an illness that could have been prevented by vaccines. I’ve watched some of these children die. As another physician below mentioned, this is one of the hardest things about our job. We see children die, and it’s always devastating, but when it could have been prevented, it is that much worse. As physicians, of course we are biased on the pro-vaccine side, because most, if not all, of us have seen families suffering, and children dying, from a disease that could have been prevented. Do I know what causes autism? No. Do I know why some kids get cancer and others don’t? No (OK some have a genetic component that we can find, though you get my point). But I know what I’ve learned from my patients. The problem is that when a parent finds that there is something wrong with their child, they grasp for an explanation, understandably. I’ve had senseless death of children in my family as well, so I am not immune to this. The problem is that vaccines are the “hot topic” right now, so everyone clings to that. In reality, the diagnosis of autism is still in its infancy, so of course there are more children being diagnosed than 50 years ago – we know what to call it now. But even if it’s not just that bias, and it really is increasing, I think we have to look at all the ways our world has changed in 50 years and step back and realize that autism, like many diseases, is likely multifactorial, can’t be pinned to one thing, and might be due to any number of things that have changed. Vaccines aren’t the only things that have evolved over the years. I am excited to see what the future in research holds so we can help these children and their families, but in the meantime, I’m not going to back down on my passionate pro-vaccine stance. When you’ve seen children die, it leaves a pretty impressive mark. And if in changing one person’s mind about vaccines, I can save even just one child from death or even debilitating disease or morbidity, then I’ve done my job. I’m not expecting to change anyone’s mind here today. But I’m going to try.
You need to enlighten yourself first.
There are huge differences between what is statistically significant correlation, what is provably strong causation, and what you “feel” strongly.
For those of us that have to deliver something that works, we learn to go with the first two, even though these takes a long time to research, and we learn to ignore the junk information that comes with those strong “feelings”.
Remember, many people still “feel” that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11.
Just because you “feel” something, does not make it true in any sense of the word.
They are indeed unrelated. Rates of autism in children who have been vaccinated are no different than in children who are not. In other words, the association is non-existent and is indeed a manifestation of cherry picking the data.
Speaking of coincidence…
Mainstream medical industry has set up a front that patient outcomes should be dismissed as mere “anecdotal” information. They routinely wish to correlate disease absence to vaccination incidence but refuse to correlate vaccine damage to vaccination incidence.
I agree with this – there were many children that were normal BEFORE being given a vaccine. There are many children/people that carry genes that are triggered by certain vaccines – these people should not receive vaccines as the vaccine for them is way worse than the disease it is trying to prevent. Those that do not have these genes may not have any adverse effects from vaccines but those that do likely will. It is way more complicated than everyone should have a certain vaccine or everyone should not – everyone is different and will have a different outcome from a vaccine.
It is not always only the vaccine itself that causes the problem, it is the genes that a certain person already carries that are triggered by the vaccine. These people should not receive vaccines. Period. And yes, there is “science” behind this and what people need to realize that claim the old “science” card all the time is that “science” does not always agree and there are always contradictory studies, updated studies that show totally different information than the old study etc.
I myself, will never have another after my experience. I learned the hard way.
No, there really is not reputable science behind your claims. Vaccines do not trigger genes for autism. Vaccines do not make a person more likely to develop autism. Studies show MMR vaccine does not trigger autism. More vaccines do not lead to more autism. The main research linking them in the first place. was fraudulent. There just is no link.
Triggers, might not cause but triggers autism. The manufacturers state may cause ‘brain damage, injury’ etc. And the VEARS & Vaccine courts that give in and financial award families. These are FACTS so argue with the manufacturers and the gov’t. The PROOF is out there.
“Triggers, might not cause but triggers autism.”
The evidence does not support vaccines a s a trigger either.
“And the VEARS & Vaccine courts that give in and financial award families.”
But not for autism. And Vaccine Court is not scientific evidence of causation.
“The PROOF is out there.”
Great, now I have an X-files theme earworm.
The evidence actually does support vaccines as a trigger – it all depends on which study you look at and what you choose to believe.
Amen. god bless your child. Its obvious this web site is government ran to save their butts and let the public rant and to let us all vent for nothing. We will all have to fight Our own fight. For all of you out there with an autistic child I’m by your side, I believe your beliefs and I know its being covered up. I wish all your children health and happiness, peace and knowledge…
BLUNT Moms is government? This is hilarious.
“For all of you out there with an autistic child I’m by your side, I believe your beliefs and I know its being covered up”
Most parents of autistic children do not believe vaccines were the cause.
I am curious then, about all those children who were NOT vaccinated but are STILL autistic? There are studies in Canada right now that are finding a link between parents who were on Ritalin as children and their children who have autism. There is another study (US based I believe) that is showing a link between glutin and autism. There is yet another study (Manitoba Canada) that is showing an environmental link. I have a friend who is part of a study (Victoria Canada) that is studying a link between an abnormal placenta. The truth is that no one knows what is causing it. I think the dramatic rise is related to the fact that we know more about the disorder then we did 20 years ago. The MMR has not changed it formula that drastically to cause this increase either. I understand that parents want and deserve answers for what causes it. However, those answers may not come right away. Blaming something that has been PROVEN scientifically over and over and over again that it is not related isn’t effective or useful.
There are other things that can trigger these genes, vaccines are only one likely candidate. So yes there are children that are autistic that have never had a vaccine. Things like drugs, excess stress, toxins and more can also be triggers.
My son is on the spectrum. He is very high functioning. Even though he is high on the spectrum, it was obvious way before the vaccinations that he had something different going on. My thinking is that if most parents were honest with themselves, the vaccine coincided with the end of their denial. In unvaccinated children the same symptoms happen around the same time. The timing is coincidence, the correlation doesn’t exist.
I am not against vaccinations at all. There is something to be said for the increasing rates of autism coinciding with vaccinations becoming 4 in 1 shots, 3 in 1 shots etc. My nephew is autistic. At his 3 year check up was given a 4 in 1 shot and was virtually a zombie for the following week. Maybe their little immune systems cannot handle that many types of diseases in one shot. It over loads their systems and triggers some sort of problem in the brain. This may not effect every child because they are all different BUT it should be studied more. Until then, if I still had small children, I would insist on separate vaccinations.
I am all for increasing studies on any number of things, but I have a hard time with arguments stating “vaccines have changed over the years, so the increasing numbers of x must be associated with vaccines.” LOTS of things have changed over the last 50 years- more processed foods, more medicines, more environmental exposures… The average life expectancy has increased, and so we are seeing more of just about everything just because people are living longer. Life expectancy has nothing to do with autism, I realize, but vaccines don’t either. Our world is such a different place than it was 50 years ago. It’s just that one person (falsely) threw out vaccines as an explanation, and now that’s the only thing anyone can focus on.
I couldn’t agree more!
Certainly agree that the food has also changed.. Maybe if mothers were still breastfeeding or at the very least using raw cow’s milk the children of today would stand a better chance of being disease free with or without the vaccines.. Really – if you feed your baby Soy Based formula that has 12 essential nutrients added (It’s GMO soy and the “vitamins” are chemically made in a lab out of coal tar or some other ingredient) over you own milk that has over 135 ESSENTIAL nutrients and goodies in it and is SPECIFICALLY formulated for your baby… (your body knows what it’s doing), Maybe it the mother that is the problem.. Not feeding the child a proper diet WILL cause harm too. And not allow the immune system to develop properly. and from what I have read about Vaccines – that is their primary purpose – to boost the immune system so the individual can handle the “bugs” that come. Well, the best Vaccine for newborns is raw breast milk. Next would be Raw Goat’s milk and then raw cow’s milk. The newborn NEEDS the cholestrum to build it’s immune system.
Stoneage, I’m not even a mother and I take offense to “maybe it is the mother that is the problem.” Not to make a pun, but are fathers “immune” to blame? It is true that breast milk has antibodies that help with the baby’s immune system, and is the best thing for the baby to consume. But I fear you are going to make mothers feel guilty who, for one reason or another, are unable to breastfeed.
Keep in mind that there are more children that are surviving childbirth than every before. A larger population of children = a larger population of a specific ailment within that population. In addition, autism has only recently been well-defined and better tested for. Someone high on the autism spectrum in the 1950s may have just been considered slow or different.
“Someone high on the autism spectrum in the 1950s may have just been considered slow or different.”
Or perhaps a prodigy, or an eccentric, or an antisocial curmudgeon.
Cold, no heart comment coming – read at your own risk. You’ve been warned.
That actually is the main reason for a longer life expectancy. Because of the infant mortality rate. Used to be that many of these children with “defects” didn’t make it. and some that were perfectly healthy… Making the average life expectancy much lower than it is today. Fact is that if you survived until you 10’th or 12’th birthday in the wayback machine – Barring any traumatic event (Getting run over by the horse and buggy) – you would live a long and happy life. Now Pharma and big medicine has taken over and “saved” these kids ( one thing they are REALLY good at is trauma medicine) – Giving the parents a lifetime of medical bills and special needs care. Great for the Medical industry, but VERY hard on the parents. If you are one of those parents – Cool on you because you are very special. Your child is super lucky to have you. But you do have to admit – your life is different than what you had hoped. Have I had to live through a child death? Well, not personally, but in my family and friends, yes.. Several. i.e. more than 3
So, Is it a good idea to “save the baby at any cost?” Baby saved but the parents could be straddled with all these burdens. Again, to you folks in this situation – Yes, I know you love your child and I’m sure I would too If I met them, but you do have to ask What would have happened if the child didn’t make it as a newborn? I know a few parents that this has happened and they grieve, bury them, grieve some more, never forget them and learn to love and appreciate all that they do have and carry on with normal lives.
I am pregnant with my first, and WILL be vaccinated. I don’t agree to the assumed correlation of vacc. & autism. I think the “spike” in autism that we perceive is really just over- or better diagnosing (depending on your viewpoint). 50 years ago, Johnny down the street didn’t have autism, is was described as “nice as can be, but just a little off”. We’re over diagnosing now. Oddities are what make the human race great. Nobody is perfect, and many autistic children grow into amazing adults who help society tremendously. I would MUCH rather have an otherwise healthy autistic child then to watch my child suffer a horrible death from what these vaccinations protect against
The so-called increase in autism is also because the definition of autism spectrum disorder has been changing. When these are factored in, rates of autism has not changed at all over time, before or after the development of the MMR vaccine.
Wow, talk about blunt moms thats all well and good. If being blunt is your agenda to spread the word to crucify Mothers who are stuck up against the wall on what she should do about vaccinations. Have you diligently broke down the vile of medicine that the government gets shipped to Our United States, Vaccines that are made by many countries other than our own. Sorry but I along with thousands of mothers can’t trust them. I’ve done my research and when my children were vaccinated 30 and 28 years ago, they only received a third (1/3) of what the children receive now. There are many many parents willing to get their children immunized, but just at a slower rate. Giving 3 different vaccines at one time in a child that does not have a mature immune system is very dangerous. If you (Blunt Mothers) are so sure autism is no way connected to immunization, Then what is? Just what makes a child loose their ability to speak words they have learned and use daily? I never hear an answer just alot of voicing that it is not vaccines.. Very simple just like you put it. What do all these children have in common, Can you answer that. No and you won’t. You think because you are the lucky ones that you have the right to voice your opinion about vaccines having nothing to do with it. Thats really what it comes down too. Just think before you speak out so publicly, because in the end some where down the road something like this will change your life and then your eyes will be opened. Has humanity come down to the level of being so vane and superficial that you go above the facts to feel safe and not have to become vurnerable to feel bad for a friends child. You have burned so many bridges in your own mind that this just can’t be, But reality will catch up. I wish all your children health, happiness, knowledge and the ability to strive and socialize and be one of God’s Children.. Just remember something has done this, I am 49 yrs old and as a child I never heard of a child living with Autism. I am also one of 8 children raised in the seventies. 6 of us had the chicken pox at once. My sister came down with the mumps, vaccines were not mandatory. We all spoke, and potty trained and socialized in our very over populated City of Philadelphia. We were all fine. Its the vaccines or the air we breath. I knew mothers that breast fed, Bottle fed with formula all kinds, and vaccines were not talked about like there was something wrong with them. We were eager to get our children protected. But never heard of a case of Autism. That was the difference of today. If you get your child all their shots thats mandatory for school age children to enter into school it about 2/3 more than we had as children. We all survived and Autism was practically unheard of. So please stop acting act and thinking you have the God Given Right to yell at Mothers who are taking vaccination agendas differently from you. because you get your child vaccines does not give you the right to judge, other mothers who love their children dearly just like you.
“Giving 3 different vaccines at one time in a child that does not have a mature immune system is very dangerous.”
Evidence? Why is suddenly 3 a dangerous number?
“Children.. Just remember something has done this, I am 49 yrs old and as a child I never heard of a child living with Autism. ”
Because 50 years ago it was extremely poorly understood and highly stigmatized.
Giving 3 shots is somehow dangerous, when we encounter more bacteria and viruses when we open the door to our local Starbucks?
I’m 40+ years old and as a child I had a neighbor with an institutionalized, autistic child.
What’s your point? Other than being ignorant to the realities of institutionalized children who were hidden away as a ‘dirty secret’?
Someone analogized a vaccine to a car seat. A car seat is not injected into a child’s bloodstream! Not only are there 3-1 shots, they will give multiple, single shots in one day. It is bombarding their little systems. Why do you think you are not supposed to inoculate when a child is ill? It’s too much for their system when it is down. Why would anyone want to give more than one dose of multiple viruses to an infant or small child? You cannot deny the evidence that autism rates are sky rocketing, as are the amount of inoculations we are giving to the children in America. Maybe the inoculations are not the sole cause, but I’d be surprised if it were not PART of the cause.
Shows how little you know about Dr Wakefield, he never said do not vaccinate, he said single vaccines were safer. It was the British government who decided to withdraw the single vaccines & risk children’s lives to save money There are 24 studies that prove Dr Wakefields research, doing some research before spouting out crap.
Please give us the citations.
re “Wakefield never said do not vaccinate” Oh, that Andy Wakefield, almost as good as a lawyer. What he did say in the fateful 1998 press conference is to give separate vaccinations for measles, mumps and rubella and other taped interviews:
Wakefield has also very cleverly used others to speak for him, by referencing his work but preserving his deniability.
There’s no doubt that Wakefield has spread fear and doubt about the safety of vaccines.
There is a chance though that these vaccines are good for most people, but could remain devastating for others. Everyones body chemistry is different. Can you really say for sure that vaccines affect everyone the same? I say No! Why do some have high fevers and can get very sick after? Just like every medication affects everyone differently. Everyone is different maybe just MAYBE it can be dangerous for a small portion of us? I choose to vaccinate my children but I know that I am taking a risk either way. I think that is the real message!
since you are a medical professional I have a quick question about the Tripedia vaccine. The insert states on adverse reactions (page 11) that it can cause SIDS and Autism. I know the shot was out in 2008, and discontinued in 2011. however what about the kids that received this vaccine?
Adverse events reported on the insert do not imply causation. Manufacturers have to report any adverse events after the fact. Here is a meme enlarging the relevant part of the insert: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=501299776606703&set=pb.414643305272351.-2207520000.1380143645.&type=3&theater.
Note that deaths from motor vehicle accident and accidental drowning are also reported. And that the insert explains this does not show a causal connection.
Studies suggest that if anything vaccines decrease the risk of SIDS, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342. And as you know, no connection to autism was found.
Anyone else getting weary of this back and forth business? Well God bless Google, low and behold there is Dorit, I urge everyone to google and read, if it smells like a pharmaceutical company it usually is 🙂
The legal and historical status of Voices for Vaccines
Dorit tried to make light of the association with ‘Task Force for Global’ a sizeable non-profit which claims to be a partner of the Centers for Disease control which takes money from the pharmaceutical industry. In fact, VFV were started by ‘Task Force’ in 2008 which stated its intention of recruiting members of the public to act as advocates for the vaccination program. When I originally wrote about Dorit on these Karen was on in minutes stating:
Voices for Vaccines has as its fiscal agent The Task Force for Global Health. They take in our donations and cut checks for us. Many non-profits who are too small to handle their own 501(c)3 status use fiscal agents in this way; it’s quite common. We have absolutely no access to their money, nor do we benefit from their money. Voices for Vaccines is not tied to any pharmaceutical corporation or to any government organization. Thus far, all of our donations have been small and have come from individuals.
However, the Task Force website states that VFV is a project of Task Force (and it subdivision Vaccine Equity) and CDC veteran Alan Hinman is named as both director of Vaccine Equity (funded by Bill Melinda Gates Foundation, Merck and Novartis) and VFV. When finally cornered on this we had the following exchange: go look for your own citation.
Yes, Joy, the residents of AoA – with their commitment to conspiracy theories – want to believe the grass roots organization Voices for Vaccines is actually a front for pharma. The many parents who participate in it would probably find that amusing. And yes, I’m a member of the unpaid Parents Advisory Board of that organization. Hint: being a volunteer activist and being an employee of a pharmaceutical company are two different things. If your google skills were a little better, you may have been able to find the fact that I work in a lawschool.
Yes Dorit, I see that, you work at a law school, you are NOT a medical expert. My “limited” Google skills were able to discover your affiliation and you can evade as many queries as you like but you are still busted.
Yes, Joy. I’m “busted”: OMG, the person speaking about vaccines works at a lawschool! And she believes enough in what she says she volunteers in a non-profit that advocates for vaccines! And I know that because she is posting using her own name, which using the same irrefutable logic I (Joy) conclude is a sign of someone with something to hide, unlike the people posting using only their first name, a pseudo-name and no name at all!
And you also assume, apparently, that trying to discredit the person you’re talking to is a substitute to having evidence or facts on your side. Sorry, that’s wrong, but you do win this lovely “I use the pharma shill gambit! http://badskeptic.com/?p=750” t-shirt.
Joy, your allegations about Voices for Vaccines are pure fantasy. How do I know? I’ve been a VfV supporter since before there was a Voices for Vaccines, when it was Karen and Ashley blogging at Moms Who Vax.
I am also a fairly experienced non-profit professional, so your pearl-clutching about the relationship between VfV and The Task Force for Global Health is just silly, in my professional opinion. It would be fiscally irresponsible for VfV to be a stand-alone 501(c)3 — a better use of their resources is to partner with an established organization with good infrastructure, as VfV did.
You cannot argue the science, so you are left with ad hominem attacks on those who refute your anti-vaccine inaccuracies.
Dear Miss Ditz, ah tag team bullying! Okay! Dorit got tired? So, the “allegations” as you call them were started by me? Nope I merely brought them to light. So as an unpaid professional with Dorit, I have no clue who you are and truly don’t care who you are but I do care that other people on this site might accept your word as fact. Until you have lived the fact that vaccines do go very wrong, you are preaching to the wrong choir. So my silly fantasy world and many others do know that science makes big mistakes and you can twist your results and reassure parents that their child could get hit by a bus and die as likely as die from a vaccine. The difference Miss Ditz is that we don’t push our children in front of a bus but we sure as heck drive them to a clinic and allow an equally brainwashed public health nurse inject too many vaccines at one time before their bodies can tolerate it. I live with that guilt forever, can you?
Joy, it’s a little unfortunate that in your world, explaining why you are wrong is “bullying”. Your analogy, too, is both inappropriate and misleading. We vaccinate children first and foremost to protect the child vaccinated, with protection to other as an additional benefit. Not to harm them. A more appropriate analogy is to carseat use: a child can, in unusual, rare circumstances, be hurt by being in a car seat. And the mother of that child will feel terrible. As I’m sure the mother of a child who suffers a vaccine injury feels terrible – with a sense of betrayal in addition to the rest of the pain (and vaccine injuries are as rare as a child being injured by a carseat). But that does not make the decision to give the child the protection – of a carseat or a vaccine – the wrong decision: it was the right thing to do. You just got unlucky. You have to hope that the people around the parent will give her enough support to see that: her guilt is natural, but misplaced – she offered her child the best protection modern medicine had, but her child suffered a random, rare, misfortune.
Of course, with vaccines, we also have parents wrongly believing that their child was injured by the vaccine when it’s actually a coincidence – like the parents who believe a vaccine caused a child’s autism, when the evidence, and there is plenty of it, shows no link.
In contrast, there is no such comfort you can offer the parent who chose to reject expert advice and accept the unfounded claims of the anti-vaccine movement, not vaccinate their child, and watch that child contract a preventable disease, suffer and even die. That parent made an unsupported choice; and their child paid the price. They have to go on with both the tragedy and the justified guilt.
Part the first.
Joy accused me of “tag team bullying”. Let’s see. She made some allegations about Voices for Vaccines. I refuted them with facts and my own experience.
Is that bullying? One definition for cyber bullying is “the use of electronic communication to bully a person, typically by sending messages of an intimidating or threatening nature.”
Did I send texts to this person named Joy? Did I post unwanted and/or abusive messages on Joy’s Facebook wall? Did I tweet her or tweet about Joy? Did I spread misinformation about Joy?
Why, no. I have no idea who Joy is, or if she is even she, or how to contact her outside of this comment stream.
So: Did I bully? No. Joy just cannot tolerate being contradicted.
Part the second: I want to be perfectly clear.
First: every story about alleged vaccine injury has as its center a person (often a child) who is struggling in life, or is ill, or is in pain. It is absolutely true that the person’s struggles, illness, or pain is absolutely real.
Second: The fact that I reject the adult (sometimes the parent, but often another adult) narrative about the CA– USE of child’s struggle and pain does not mean I reject the reality of the child’s suffering.
Third: I reject the idea that all children with autism are “suffering” or “are damaged” or “need a cure”. Most folk with autism (including children) experience physical pain and/or emotional distress. What I am want to get across that it isn’t “the autism” that is the root of distress, but unmet needs. Even folk (including children) with intense autism –that is, folk with limited oral language, folk with intellectual disabilities — can and should have vibrant, satisfying lives. I know such folk.
Do I accept the “fact that vaccines do go very wrong”. Of course I do. They can and do….very, very rarely, at a rate orders of magnitude less than having a vaccine-preventable disease can “go very wrong”.
Joy bases her beliefs on two ideas “too many vaccines at one time” and ” before their bodies can tolerate it.” These are beliefs. Science isn’t a belief-based system, but an evidence-based system.
The facts are clear: every newborn, every infant, every child, every day is exposed to far more antigens (by orders of magnitude) than those that are added by vaccination. Joy’s “too many” assertion is like saying throwing a cup of water overboard in the middle of the ocean will change the salinity of all the world’s oceans.
If Joy’s “too soon” is equally flawed, and dare I say,naive, about what infants’ immune systems experience in the minutes, hours and days following birth.
Here is a simplified scenario. The (healthy) uterine environment is sterile. After birth, every time someone touches a baby, organisms are transferred to the infant. Some are benign, some are not, but all trigger an immune response. So you can see how immunizations are a grain of salt in the ocean of the baby’s developing immune system.
I want to close by repeating: challenging someone’s narrative about WHY a person’s health and/or cognitive challenges happened is NOT challenging the reality of the person’s challenges.
Thank you for all your help, a news article I ready said, CDC: U.S. kids with autism up 78% in past decade. I would really like to vaccinate my daughter for autism, can I schedule an appointment to come in and get her vaccinated?… I am a cell biologist/medical researcher and own a biotech company. you could not pay men enough money to put that poison in my child’s body.
I just wanted to leave a comment. But the only way I could leave a comment without sharing this was to reply to someone- sorry. NOT EVERYTHING HELPFULL IS BENEFICIAL- at least not to me, a cancer survivor- I had a brain tumor in 1999 a Meduloblastoma. What was HELPFULL to the doctors and nurses, was that I was available for surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy. Their jobs became one patient busier. To many, this seems beneficial, and for a few years, I thought so too. But the well-known side effects affect me even to this day. Double vision,(side effect of surgery)hearing loss,(vincristine,and radiation) sterility(radiation) an inability to gain weight (some women might be jealous) as a 27 year old man who weighs the same as some little kid is NOT the way I planned to go through life. Poor bone health- radiation. Chronic fatigue, and chronic migraines, poor balance , and other fine motor difficulties- and as a bonus side effect thrown in just for fun some mild depression ( a side effect from all of the above, plus having the stigma of having a brain injury and losing almost all of your childhood friends). Just because you are given a cure, doesn’t mean your life has improved. Any nurse or doctor can realise the benefits of having more patients, but I’m sure they all want you to get better right? If a patient is cured who benefits? If the patient needs to return because of the side effects who benefits? Go ahead and pat yourself on the back if you’ve “cured” someone- but don’t be fooled into thinking side effects don’t matter . Prevention is what people need, not chemical filled needles. The medical world needs to review the meaning of the phrase first do no harm. I’ve recently learned that the ketogenic diet is effective at killing cancerous tumors (including brain tumors ). However, because of the powerfull drug cartel who controll the protocol used in treating cancer, the doctors and the public are not even made aware of the ketogenic diet, which is a very successful ,non invasive treatment/cure for many cancer. Including
For someone who doesn’t like misinformation you sure spread it here. Have you read the Wakefield study? Because if you had you wouldn’t be saying what you’re saying. Try taking a moment to read it, then come back to us all and apologize for spreading misinformation and not practicing what you preach.
He has been banned in England, but for your information he is practicing in Texas. Look it up.
word to your mother.
You’re talking my language.
If you mentioned even ONE vaccine death, I would consider this a fair article.
Well I didn’t think I had to. But yet side effects, even death are a risk. I know it. You know it. But I could also walk out the door today and get hit by a bus. In fact I’m more likely to get hit by a bus. Yet I still left the house.
I’m just really confused as to why we give vaccines credit for “eradicating” these diseases. Below is a graph showing the decline in deaths from many diseases BEFORE vaccines were even invented. Also included are scarlet fever and typhoid fever, both of which have no vaccines for, but the deaths rate also decreased dramatically, and in similar fashion to all of the “vaccine-preventable diseases”. If you like facts so much, you should look at the TOTAL death number (pre and post vaccines) and not the numbers from when vaccines were introduced and beyond.
I’m not convinced that numbers taken from the population of an island prove much. Either way it is fact that as the number of people vaccinating decline the number of people getting ill from the diseases they are not vaccinating for rise.
Also, and it’s important to note that these graphs only show DEATH rates NOT actual infection rates. Of course as there were advances in medicine (not to mention sanitation) death rates would decline. And how many deaths is an acceptable number of deaths?
And just one more thing. Let’s see some pretty graphs from the same period for developing countries. You know, just to be fair. I guarantee it won’t look the same.
I’m not sure you are even following your own conversation in this thread. Sure, you didn’t have to mention that vaccines have caused ‘at least one death’ (it’s obvious, right?), but ‘how many deaths is an acceptable numbers of deaths?’. You should look at the questions you’re asking and pose them against yourself.
If vaccines are to prevent the disease, then why do vaccinated children still get the disease (ex. whopping cough, measles etc)? Also, why aren’t we given booster shots as adults?
“If vaccines are to prevent the disease, then why do vaccinated children still get the disease (ex. whopping cough, measles etc)?”
Nothing is 100% guarantee. Maintaining your brakes does not mean there is zero chance they would fail, just that the chances are reduced. Same for vaccines: they are not 100% effective, but they reduce your chances of getting the disease – and your chances of having complications if you do get it – substantially. While vaccinated children can still get the disease, they get it at much lower rates than the unvaccinated. It’s been estimated that unvaccinated children get whooping cough at rates 9-23 times higher than vaccinated (depending on the study – here is one: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/6/1446.full) and measles too is much higher among the unvaccinated: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=190649 O; http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=193407.
Though note that since vaccination rates are high, the absolute numbers may be higher for the vaccinated – here’s an explanation: http://skeweddistribution.com/2012/05/14/true-or-false-there-are-more-vaccinated-pertussis-cases-than-unvaccinated/.
“Also, why aren’t we given booster shots as adults?” You should be; the CDC has an adult booster schedule. Some vaccines confer long term, probably life long immunity (e.g. MMR), others do not.
Scarlet fever rates improved BECA– USE WE TREAT STREP! Scarlet fever/rash/complications comes from streptococcus pyogenes not being treated. The reason we in the medical field treat Strep is not to make your sore throat better but to prevent scarlet fever and rheumatic fever. No vaccine needed when we have penicillin/amoxicillin/Keflex…
The ONLY disease we have eradicated is smallpox, can’t wait til I have to figure out what polio, diphtheria and rubella looks like. Immunize your kids or let me send your child’s vaccines to my friends woking in Uganda
The deaths from these decline due to advances in other modern science/medicine advances (appropriate treatment algorithms and improvements in medical technology). These conspiracy theorist step over metaphorical dollars to pick up dimes all day long. You theories are that, just theories. Medical science passes through such vigorous testing just to become accepted; not just a bunch of coincidences like you all seem to point out.
Instances (not just death) of the diseases also decreased dramatically for most of the diseases PRIOR to the vaccine program. This was taken directly from the insert for the current polio vaccine IPOL:
Prior to the introduction of inactivated poliovirus vaccines in 1955, large outbreaks of poliomyelitis occurred each year in the United States (US). The annual incidence of paralytic disease of 11.4 cases/100,000 population declined to 0.5 cases by the time oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV) was introduced in 1961.
In case you were wondering – 0.5 is the equivalent of HALF. Sheeple.
Would be nice if you cited your claim, Ethan, but it appears to me that your quote is saying that the injectable inactivated polio vaccine, introduced in 1955, reduced polio cases by half before the oral (live) vaccine came out in 1961. You did know there were two different polio vaccines, right?
Here is a sourced graph to corroborate that. Note that it is logarrhythmic, so a cut by half is not going to be half the height of the graph.
Calling others sheeple is rich.
Both of the disease you mention have are treated with antibiotics because they are caused by bacteria (salmonella typhi and streptococcus pyogenes, respectively)! That would probably account for the decline. 🙂 Also I had the vaccine for typhoid before travelling to Haiti so…
I know these comments don’t change minds but it is so hard to just not say anything. Just so you know, a common consequence of Mumps is infertility :-0
Isn’t a common “consequence” of vaccines infertility? LOL. The Japanese gov’t stopped endorsing HPV vaccine because of reports of infertility following vaccination. An entire country does not stop recommending a vaccine unless there is some strong evidence that the vaccine is causing more harm than good. You can still get that particular shot, in Japan, if you really want it. But doctors and all health officials are not recommending it.
Saw this particular story on my local news a few months ago. Heartbreaking.
“Isn’t a common “consequence” of vaccines infertility? LOL. The Japanese gov’t stopped endorsing HPV vaccine because of reports of infertility following vaccination.” Lilly is twice wrong here. First, the Japanese government did not stop endorsing HPV because concerns about infertility, but because of complaints about pain, and it’s sad that they did, because on the basis of complaints with no evidence of causal connection, women won’t be protected against a disease that kills over 2700 in Japan. http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/japan-health-ministry-pulls-recommendation-hpv-vaccination/.
SEcond, there is no evidence connecting vaccine and infertility. Let’s loo at the case study you mentioned – one case: Ovarian failure: http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/religion-gardasil/ “But many other Christian groups use all sorts of tactics in trying to suppress the use of Gardasil. One group totally misrepresents a case study in which a young girl had premature ovarian failure a few months after a Gardasil vaccination. The actual paper, written by a Catholic activist physician, Dr. Deidre Little, concludes that “The diagnostic tasks were to determine the reason for her secondary amenorrhoea and then to investigate for possible causes of the premature ovarian failure identified. Although the cause is unknown in 90% of cases, the remaining chief identifiable causes of this condition were excluded.” In other words, this young girl fits in the unknown cause group, and there was no evidence whatsoever that Gardasil was a causal factor”
Doesn’t the mumps cause sterility in men and not infertility in women?
So basically you don’t understand the difference between prevalence, incidence, mortality and morbidity?
Deaths can reduce but incidence remain high with high morbidity. Both measles and polio are good examples of this. In regards to polio most people understand that never getting polio is better than getting it, not dying because of respirators, then being crippled for life.
Measles prevelance was still close to 100% before the vaccine. Yes deaths had reduced, but not the incidence of encephalitis for example.
Before the vaccine nearly everyone got measles, about 80% of people got mumps and chicken pox. Fewer people died but many were still adversely affected for life. Brain damage, deafness, blindness, amputation due to complications etc.
After the introduction of vaccines for measles, umps, rubella, polio, tetanus, chicken pox the number of cases of these diseases dropped dramatically. For measles to nearly zero. For other diseases to only a few per cent of what they once were.
If you want to look at how vaccines “eradicated” disease you need to look at either incidence or prevelance of the disease versus vaccine introduction. These numbers clearly show a massive reduction in the numbers of disease cases after the introduction of the vaccines.
And that is great they got a kept these diseases under control. What the new agenda is with all the talk of autism is giving vaccines so young in infancy. most of todays babies are getting to many vaccines to young verses the maturity of their little immune systems. EI: My Granddaughter just had a 2 shots in her one arm and another shot in her other arm. The next morning after not sleeping at all’ that night, Her arm blew up and turned red hot swollen ring circles as big as her whole entire shoulder. When looking up signs of reactions due to vaccines this red hot inflammed whole entire shoulder was supposed to be no more than a 1cm circle. The dr. of course wanted to see this because they thought mom was over exaggerating and could believe their eyes. Their answer was atleast it wasn’t her whole body. That did not make mom feel better since mom has another child 3 1/2 years old at home with autism. The worry was he broke out from the shots also. Is mom supposed to just not think about it and blow it off to the wind etc. Let me tell you It does not work that way. having a Child with autism is draining due to constant teaching 24/7.. They also said don’t worry that his legs and arms are blown up red and hot. Clearly it was the shots. When he drank his mothers breast milk and then formulas on the market He did not break out this way.. Thats what alot of people don’t take into consideration when these mom’s are trying to explain themselves about what could have done this. There has to be some kind of human empathy mom to mom on why this mom feels this way. whatever happened to this. No one wants a child to have any difficulties. They are just looking for answers. My daughter in law is the best mom and is now mentally drained and angered that she may have to force more vaccines on his body that could make his autism trigger even more delays..Mom and Dads are very lucky fortunate parents that they can just enjoy their children. Her day starts with what can we do for fun? hhm is it to loud there, can I do the rides with him because he needs me all the time to socialize, will he have a panic attack? Its not fun. Hoping for answers soon…
“What the new agenda is with all the talk of autism is giving vaccines so young in infancy. ”
That’s the old agenda, by people who had a financial stake in making a vaccine-autism connection. It has been disproven.
I can understand why it would still make parents nervous, especially in the situation you describe. It is easy to scare, difficult sometimes to unscare people with science.
To support that comment, here is an article documenting those numbers: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=209448. It’s true that mortality declined prevaccine. For example, the iron lung allowed people to survive with polio that would not otherwise. But survival isn’t everything; diseases can cause other harms besides death. Vaccines eradicated those diseases or substantially reduced their prevalence.
Here’s a blog post analyzing that claim, by the way: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/03/29/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-vacci/
Typhoid and Scarlet fever are treated with antibiotics. Scarlet fever is actually from strep…so yes things REALLY improved when antibiotics were given.
What that corresponds with Measles and polio…not really anything.
Yes.. there IS most definitely a Typhoid vaccine! My husband has been given that vaccine several times. Also scarlet fever declined because of the penicillin! Scarlet Fever is just strep throat. Some people for a rash for when they have strep. If we didn’t have antibiotics just as many people would be dying for strep today.
Polio. Most north Americans do not think of this as a problem because vaccines solved the problem. But in 1985, 350,000 kids per year still got it in third world countries. Rotary International and its partners started to vaccinate kids around the world with the goal of eradicating it. In 2012, there were only 223 cases worldwide.. The number will be higher in 2013 because wars in some areas have prevented vaccines from being delivered and there is a spike of cases in areas such as Somalia. I have no initials behind my name, but can see the huge benefits by looking at the total results and good that has been done.
You may be more likely to be hit by a bus – IF you do, however, it would most likely be YOUR fault because you were not paying attention. I would give that a 70% or higher rate but is is just a guess. The fact is that no one can know what their child’s reaction to anything injected straight into their system and if Death is a possibility? Better your child than mine. I’ll keep mine healthy with food. Thanks. I appreciate the offer for vaccinations and you go ahead, but I’ll wait for you in the car.
Not-so-funny coincidence…the MMR vaccine killed my friend’s 14 month old baby girl on Oct 3 (less than a week ago). I’ll be attending the funeral on Thursday. Please don’t interpret that response as being anti-vaccine. As good as they are, vaccines can still have very serious, even lethal, side effects.
When it comes to ANYTHING medical, a death, be it related or unrelated to a vaccination, medication, therapy, whatever, MUST be listed as a potential side effect.
In all honesty, you are correct. The vaccines themselves say that there can be adverse reactions. HOWEVER, the risk of an adverse reaction to a vaccine is “very low” and the risk of that adverse reaction being fatal is beyond “extremely low”. I’m sorry for your loss and the loss of your friend – If it isn’t too forward or insensitive, I’m curious if the death was in fact linked to the vaccine by a coroner or some sort of professional, or if it’s something that happened around the same time? Again, please don’t mistake my curiosity for insensitivity! I have a friend I know who’s child suffered brain damage at or near the time their child was vaccinated. To this day she believes it was due to the vaccinations, however no one was ever able to confirm this. I understand that doesn’t rule out the possibility that it still could have been from the vaccine – reactions due unfortunately happen, some of which can be severe. I currently believe that even with the slight risks, the benefits of vaccination far exceed the risks. Hopefully some day we won’t have to choose the lesser of two evils and their will be a 100% risk free solution, but until then, I’m going to follow the science and the odds with my own children and stick to vaccines.
Yes, it was due to the vaccine. The team of doctors who treated her baby prior to her death confirmed it. The baby had 2 of the viruses virtually everywhere in her body (rubella was one, and then the other was obviously measles or mumps, can’t remember which). It was in her eyes, her brain (it caused damage to her brain stem), in her spine, you name it. In addition to the brain stem damaged (which affected her ability to breathe on her own), it caused her liver to fail (this is what killed her).
There are risks in everything – unfortunately it was your friend’s baby that drew the short stick on this one.
This baby gave her life to save hundreds of thousands of other babies … her death is not in vain. Her life, as short as it was should be celebrated because her sacrifice will ensure many many others will live on. What greater legacy could a 14-month old baby’s life have …
A death from MMR vaccine would be world wide news.
There have been no deaths from vaccines in Australia for decades, and for children in Australia probably never.
It would be easy to verify if this was true.
You REALLY think a death from MMR is newsworthy? THAT is a fallacy but I can assure you it happened. I spent the day attending funeral services for the adorable baby girl who passed away from it. Brain stem damage & liver failure – not a pleasant way to go.
I am sorry for your friend’s loss, but I am somewhat skeptical of the accuracy of your claim as to the cause of death. Was this reported in the news somewhere? If it is as you claim, i would expect it to be written up in a medical journal in the future – it is an extraordinary event and almost certainly means the child had a rare immunologic disorder.
I am sorry, Stephanie, but that story is extremely problematic. I am sorry for your friend’s loss, but the described connection to MMR is very unconvincing. To find the viruses in the child brain they’d have to do an autopsy – and that would delay the funeral; did they do an autopsy? How did they found two viruses? To suffer a virulent reaction from two of the vaccine viruses, the child would have to be seriously immunocompromised – in which case, how did she get to 14 months, vaccinated, without anyone noticing? As pointed out above, serious harms from MMR are extremely rare, and yes, it would be very newsworthy. I hate to sound doubtful when I’m sure your friend is grieving from the loss, but this could scare other people from using a very safe vaccine to protect children against dangerous diseases, so the problems need to be pointed out.
Stephanie, the death of anyone, especially a child of 14 months is tragic. I believe you went to a funeral for a child today.
I have strong reservations about your account of the cause of the child’s death.
Between 1979-2006, the wild rubella virus (wild, mind you, not the attenuated virus vaccine) has caused a total of 37 deaths.
Because of its lack of universal pediatric vaccination, Japan has been suffering a rubella outbreak, mostly in males over 20 years old. No fatalities have been reported.
I’ve searched PubMed and the CDC’s Weekly Morbidity and Mortality Report, and have failed to find any mention of a previous death of anyone from wild rubella or the attenuated, live rubella vaccine.
By contrast, there was wide-spread coverage of a disease, narcolepsy, following the use of a monovalent 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine, Pandemrix, used in Europe (but not the US) during the H1N1 influenza pandemic.
There was also wide-spread coverage of a particular flu vaccine, Fluvax, having unacceptably high levels of febrile seizures.
You claim that is a “fallacy” that adverse effects, including deaths, would not be reported to the news and would not be covered by news outlets.
The evidence shows that your belief about a lack of coverage of adverse effects of vaccines are false.
Again, I have great sympathy for your friend and anyone affected by the death of this little girl.
I feel great sorrow for your friend. I truly believe that there are some people who are genetically predisposed to react poorly (even die) from vaccines. I have a 20month old little girl. I searched high and low for a pediatrician that would see us and accept my terms on vaccination.
Please don’t misunderstand, I am no anti vaccine, however let me just state a little about my personal situation. I am one of 8 children, of these 8 4 of us had severe reactions to our DPT shots. One of my brothers has mild disabilities that still enable him to function primarily normal. My twin sister has moderate disabilities that has resulted in her having epilepsy and being in a wheelchair due to Cerebal Palsy. I also have a set of twin sisters that are younger than myself, following their vaccines they had immediate reactions that caused them to regress to basically a newborn state. Both of the twins suffered severe disabilities both mental and physical, epilepsy, among other health problems with one being left blind. The one that was rendered blind later died when she was almost 4 yrs old because a grandma seizure resulting from her reaction.
Her surviving twin has the mentality of a 6 year old and is a quadriplegic.
Significant research was done by a team of doctors to determine if it was the vaccine that caused this, and it was found to be so with links to the Pertussis portion of the DPT. It was never in the news other than our local stations, so a death related to a vaccine is rarely reported unless it is proven it is someone known on the world wide stage.
Having said this I understand that vaccines as a whole are needed, it has prevented a great deal of tragic deaths. However there are circumstances in which vaccines should not be given . I discussed my family history and explained how I felt to my pediatrician.
I am not anti-vaccine, however I fought for my child to receive and alternative form of the DPT, the DT which did not contain the pertussis portion to which my pediatrician agreed to.
Other than that slight variation to the vaccination schedules I have vaccinated my child against the other illnesses/diseases.
I will say it again, there are reactions to vaccines every day of the world. I can’t say that is linked to autism, but I can say that there are people who need to consider family history and allergies before giving all of the vaccines to your children.
Cathy-you are vaccinating sensibly. Not everyone can get vaccinated or get all vaccines due to underlying circumstances. But those that can, should. To protect those that can’t. The more people that get the pertussis vaccine, the better in the long run it will be for your children. i just wish everyone could understand that.
Cathy, I wonder if you are also familiar with all the research about the old DTP vaccine (different from today’s acellular pertussis vaccine) that showed no association between the vaccine and long tern neurodevelopmental disorders or seizure disorders. Here is some of it.
At the time of the DTP in the 80s, there was quite a bit of concern of the possibility of it causing encephalopathy or other neurologic problems in rare cases. But it has since not proven to be the case.
Isn’t 14 months a bit early for MMR?
No it’s given at 12 mths
I rest my case.
AMEN!!! Sounds like an uneducated rant blindly following what big medicine and big corporations told her.
It sounds like someone who has listened to the experts and understands the evidence.
The evidence that big pharma pleaded GUILTY to fraud. So yes, as an educated person, I would trust them and everything they say! [eye roll]
There’s three examples, I’ve got stuff to do and little time to discuss this issue with the uneducated. Please research.
Notice that none of these examples have to do with vaccines. That’s because vaccines and their safety are carefully monitored by several government agencies and many university researchers. Luckily, we don’t have to depend on pharma alone for that data, and we know they are very, very safe.
Aren’t you aware of the huge conflicts of interest between those gov’t agencies and Big Pharma? I mean, it’s common knowledge. The previous head of the CDC is now the President of one of the vaccine manufacturers for crying out loud!
There have been documentaries about people on the voting panel having been PAID by the vaccine manufacturers. Please research this if you truly know nothing about it. If you do and choose to ignore it, then there is no hope for you, but I will pray for your children!
Here is just one quick example I could find for you: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2012/01/the_yaz_men_members_of_fda_pan034651.php
“The previous head of the CDC is now the President of one of the vaccine manufacturers for crying out loud!”
Well, she’s president of a vaccine division of a drug company. She has that expertise. But that was after she was finished at the CDC. How is this a conflict of interest? Before or during, OK. But after finishing a tenure in government, it is not unusual to work in the industry in which you have expertise.
No it certainly isn’t uncommon for an ex government employee with all their government connections and influence in the industry be offered lucrative positions in the private sector of their field. Again.. Use the insurance fraud investigators analysis… Follow the money. It’s NOT a coincidence and there MAY be some that are on the up and up, but it’s a shady area to begin with so there will always be speculations. And what about the other individuals that are in the SAME industry and not government stooges that have the same qualifications – Why are they not occupying those positions? It would make for better PR for the corporation, but may not be all that good for the bottom line because the connections aren’t there.
Mere speculation, of course….
“Mere speculation, of course….”
Indeed, entirely. Would love to see your evidence that CDC employees are significantly influenced into doing their job differently by ex-employees. Mind you, Jeff called it a “huge conflicts of interest” not shaky speculation.
Seriously, saying that the CDC has a huge conflict of interest, because occasionally an employee works for a drug company after the no longer work for the CDC is stretching.
Big Pharma conspiracies Jeff …really? So you are one of these that believe that there is a cure for cancer out there being held from market? The whole idea stinks. How much money would healthcare save if they didn’t have to treat cancer and it’s comorbidities…BILLIONS! By the way, any Joe Blow can make a documentary, and usually it’s geared towards their own bias.
When two of the biggest names in vaccine research and support turn out to be guilty of fraud, major deception, lying and making unsubstantiated statements, it really calls into question the validity of their work on the vaccine front … and that’s putting it mildly.
Yet, this news has only been quietly shared by a handful of media outlets.
Countless American parents are putting their trust, and their child’s lives, in the hands of the U.S. Centers of Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) every time they vaccinate their children. Yet two of the CDC’s “go-to guys” have now been caught red-handed lying and, in the case of Dr. Poul Thorsen, committing outright fraud. This includes:
•Dr. Poul Thorsen, who was involved in several key studies the CDC uses to support their claims that MMR and mercury-containing vaccines, among others, are safe.
•Dr. Paul Offit, a very well-known and frequent proponent of mandatory vaccination, whose views are promoted by the AAP and who previously served as a member of The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). ACIP is a 15-member panel of immunization experts, selected by the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. They provide advice and guidelines to the CDC on vaccine-preventable diseases.
CDC Vaccine Researcher Charged with Wire Fraud, Money Laundering and Stealing Grant Money
Dr. Poul Thorsen is most widely known for a 2003 study known as the “Danish Study,” which reported there was a 20-fold increase in autism in Denmark after mercury-based preservatives like thimerosal were banned from vaccines. The research team therefore concluded that mercury-containing vaccines were safe.
But the study was actually a masterfully done example of lying by omission, because at the same time the apparent autism increase took place a new law had been put into place in Denmark that required autism cases to be reported on the national level. There was also a new clinic dedicated to autism treatment opened. These two factors were likely the driving forces behind the sudden increase in reported autism cases, but the researchers failed to disclose them.
Despite the obvious ramifications of these omitted “details,” the CDC has relied on the Danish Study to “prove” their case that MMR vaccine and mercury are safe for your kids.
Adding fodder to the fire, an investigation by Aarhus University (where Thorsen held a faculty position) and the CDC uncovered that Thorsen had not only falsified documents but was also receiving salaries from two universities (which is a violation of the universities’ rules). Then in 2009 Thorsen disappeared amidst serious fraud charges and with nearly $2 million that was supposedly used for research.
Now a federal grand jury in Atlanta has indicted Thorsen and charged him with 13 counts of wire fraud, 9 counts of money laundering and stealing more than $1 million in grant money from the CDC over a four-year period.
It turns out that Thorsen was reportedly submitting fraudulent invoices with fabricated expenses to the CDC, and using the money to purchase cars, a motorcycle, a home and cashier’s checks. The Copenhagen Post reported:
“Thorsen helped two Danish government agencies obtain research grants, which amounted to $11 million between 2000 and 2009, whilst he was working as a visiting scientist at the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the 1990s.
He returned to Denmark as the ‘principal investigator’ for the programme, which studied the relationship between autism and exposure to vaccines, allegedly putting him in charge of the administration of the funding.
It is alleged that over the four-year period he submitted over a dozen false invoices from the CDC for research expenses to Aarhus University, where he held a faculty position, instructing them to transfer the funds to a CDC account, which was in fact his personal account.
Thorsen’s research on autism is widely known in academic circles, where he was until this week a highly respected figure.”
CDC Gives Nearly $15 Million to Thorsen’s Research Center
Thorsen’s research center, the North Atlantic Epidemiology Alliances (NANEA), has received $14.6 million from the CDC since 2002, according to the Huffington Post. Many of the resulting “research” studies from NANEA have been used to support supposed vaccine safety. As the Huffington Post stated:
“Questions about Thorsens’s scientific integrity may finally force CDC to rethink the vaccine protocols since most of the other key pro vaccine studies cited by CDC rely on the findings of Thorsen’s research group.
These include oft referenced research articles published by the Journal of the American Medical Association, the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the New England Journal of Medicine and others. The validity of all these studies is now in question.”
However, this measure of common sense seems lost on the CDC, who stated in regard to Thorsen’s research:
“Dr. Thorsen was one of many co-authors on these research projects. All of these were subject to extensive peer review and we have no reason to suspect that there are any issues related to the integrity of the science.”
Paul Offit also Called Out for Lying
Dr. Paul Offit is another pro-vaccine big-wig, the same man who has notoriously stated that infants can tolerate 10,000 vaccines at once.
In 2008, veteran CBS journalist Sharyl Attkisson wrote an article detailing Offit’s many ties to the vaccine industry, and noting that Offit failed to inform CBS about exactly how much money he and his employer, Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, are paid by Merck, the manufacturer and marketer of numerous vaccines, including Gardasil, hepatitis B, chicken pox, shingles, MMR, and the rotavirus vaccine that Dr. Offit helped invent.
In response, Offit gave Attkisson’s article a scathing review and his rebuttal was posted in the Orange County (OC) Register shortly after Attkisson’s report ran in the CBS Evening News. Now the OC Register has issued a retraction of Offit’s rebuttal, stating:
“An OC Register article dated Aug. 4, 2008 entitled “Dr. Paul Offit Responds” contained several disparaging statements that Dr. Offit of Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia made about CBS News Investigative Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson and her report. Upon further review, it appears that a number of Dr. Offit’s statements, as quoted in the OC Register article, were unsubstantiated and/or false …
Unsubstantiated statements include: Offit’s claim that Attkisson “lied”; and Offit’s claim that CBS News sent a “mean spirited and vituperative” email “over the signature of Sharyl Attkisson” stating “You’re clearly hiding something.” In fact, the OC Register has no evidence to support those claims.
Further, Offit told the OC Register that he provided CBS News “the details of his relationship, and Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia’s relationship, with pharmaceutical company Merck.” However, documents provided by CBS News indicate Offit did not disclose his financial relationships with Merck, including a $1.5 million Hilleman chair he sits in that is co-sponsored by Merck.”
A Pattern of False Accusations
Offit seems to have a pattern of falsely accusing people of lying. Barbara Loe Fisher, co-founder and president of the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC), sued Offit in 2009 for defamation and also named reporter Amy Wallace and Conde Nast after Offit said “She lies” in an article published by Wired magazine without providing any evidence supporting his baseless accusation.
Fisher asked the Fourth Circuit federal court in Virginia for a jury trial and $1 million in damages but Judge Claude Hilton dismissed the lawsuit primarily on the grounds that both Fisher and Offit are public figures and that, in his opinion, Offit said “she lies” in the heat of spirited public debate.
In Hilton’s opinion, Offit’s accusation was protected under the First Amendment right to free speech. Attorney Jonathan Emord filed an excellent brief opposing the motion to dismiss that argued there is good evidence that Offit knew exactly what he was doing when he falsely accused Fisher of lying and that libel per se is not protected by the First Amendment.
“I was not able to get my day in court in front of a jury of my peers to defend myself against Offit’s false accusations. But I am very glad a respected veteran journalist, who Offit tried to defame, has had the public record set straight.
It is never too late to ask for justice or get the record corrected when bullies like Offit engage in a smear campaign against people who disagree with him. It is ironic that in my libel case, the judge said Offit has a right to defame public figures in the spirit of free speech when Offit’s real goal is to censor free speech about vaccine risks by demonizing anyone who criticizes vaccine safety.”
Offit Named “Vaccine Denialist of the Decade”
Case in point, Offit’s new book “Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens Us All” attempts to discredit some of the highest profile names that dared to question vaccine safety, including Jim Carrey, Jenny McCarthy, and Barbara Loe Fisher. As the Age of Autism reported, the book:
” … Deride[s] those who have any concerns whatsoever about the safety of the current vaccine schedule. There is plenty of sympathy for parents of children who have died of infectious diseases, but perfunctory dismissal in cases where parents blame vaccines.”
Their intriguing article from December 2010 names Offit as the “Denialist of the Decade” and points out numerous questionable omissions and other curiosities from Offit’s book, such as not mentioning the fact that the U.S. government concluded childhood vaccines contributed to symptoms of autism in 9-year-old Hannah Poling.
According to Age of Autism:
“Anyone concerned about any of these things fits Offit’s definition of anti-vaccine, because vaccines don’t cause any of them, because Paul Offit says so …
Yet Offit himself yields an amazing amount of ground by describing unsafe vaccines — including early polio shots and a rotavirus vaccine that was the immediate predecessor of his own. His technique is to situate all this as historical, part of the triumphant march of progress into the bright sunshine of vaccine safety.”
They make an interesting point in that Offit actually describes historical instances where vaccines were dangerous, yet fails to realize the connection that the same safety issues could be ongoing today. Offit wrote:
“When Barbara Loe Fisher burst onto the scene, several vaccines had serious side effects, every year causing allergic reactions, paralysis, or death. Public health officials and doctors didn’t hide these problems. But they didn’t do anything to correct them, either. And most parents had no idea they existed.”
Despite this acknowledgement, he states that a study involving vaccinated and unvaccinated children to gauge which group is ultimately healthier would be “an entirely unethical experiment.”
Mainstream Media Message: Silence Vaccine Critics, Protect Proponents
There also appears to be a pattern of censorship in the mainstream press, which has barely featured the news about Dr. Thorsen’s fraud charges and has not carried stories exposing Dr. Ofitt’s lies, yet has widely circulated criticism against Dr. Andrew Wakefield, who has investigated the connection between developmental disorders and bowel disease, and early exposure to vaccines.
There are tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars of profits involved in the vaccine industry, and as a consequence there’s major pressure to suppress scientific evidence documenting vaccine risks, such as the findings Dr. Wakefield uncovered.
Even Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius has tried to censor what the media reports in regard to vaccines. As Age of Autism reported, Sebelius stated:
“There are groups out there that insist that vaccines are responsible for a variety of problems, despite all scientific evidence to the contrary. We (the office of Secretary of Health and Human Services) have reached out to media outlets to try to get them not to give the views of these people equal weight in their reporting.”
There is immense pressure to keep negative press — like the fact Age of Autism reports that Dr. Offit earned at least $29 million, and perhaps as much as $55 million, as part of a $182-million sale by the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia of its worldwide royalty interest in the Merck Rotateq vaccine that Offit helped invent … or the fact that a key player in the autism research the CDC uses to support vaccine safety has been accused of criminal activity — quiet.
The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) — to whom the vaccine industry gives millions for conferences, grants, medical education classes and even to help build their headquarters — even sent a letter to CBS containing misinformation about NVIC in an attempt to strong arm the network into taking down our Times Square billboard message, which encourages everyone to make informed vaccine choices.
Always Remember This When Seeking the Truth
The truth is, questionable ethical practices have long been associated with the pharmaceutical (including vaccines) industry.
Numerous times in the past 50 years they (and their paid shills) have been accused of falsifying drug study results, paying bribes, covering up or omitting side effects and deaths, and denying responsibility when drugs are pulled off the market or vaccines end up permanently injuring or killing people.
This begs the question, with a track record like this, how can you believe anything they say?
Unfortunately, it is often naïve to trust blindly, even when a prominent figure has earned the respect of his peers and comes complete with a laundry list of credentials (as was the case with Thorsen).
Instead, if you want to stand even a chance of getting the truth, you also have to consider the hidden motivations behind their recommendations and research.
•What do they believe in?
•Where is their loyalty?
•Where is their money coming from?
•What does a company, or an individual, stand to gain financially from a government vaccine mandate?
You’ve simply got to investigate the source of your information, especially when it comes to your, or your child’s, health. And remember too that many pediatricians today listen to the advice of Paul Offit and research studies by Thorsen, so you’ve got to take that into account when seeking advice, too. Eventually, I do believe that truth will prevail.
Remember the words of German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer who, 200 years ago, said all truth goes through three stages:
•First it is ridiculed
•Then it is violently opposed
•Finally it is widely accepted as self evident
Gandhi also held a similar belief and famously said:
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
The good news is that many issues — including the right to transparency in vaccine research and safety, and the right to vaccine choice — are in the Violent Opposition / Fighting phase. As you can see, we know what comes next!
If Poul Thorsen is convicted of embezzlement, I hope he goes to jail for a long time; but he was not lead author on any of the studies, which were done by a large group of scientists, and his potential embezzlement does not undermine them.
Paul Offit is a different case: It’s hard to blame him for his anger at Attkisson’s misleading, problematic representation of him – see here for a critic of her inaccuracies: http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2008/07/sharyl-attkisso.html.
What you are citing in no way makes him a liar. The claims are:
“Unsubstantiated statements include: Offit’s claim that Attkisson “lied”; and Offit’s claim that CBS News sent a “mean spirited and vituperative” email “over the signature of Sharyl Attkisson” stating “You’re clearly hiding something.” In fact, the OC Register has no evidence to support those claims.”
The first is his opinion that she lies – he’s allowed to have an opinion, whether he’s right or wrong about her motives (I don’t know). The second is his claim of an email – the fact that OC Register does not have evidence to support it does not mean that he lied.
There is no lawsuit here showing Dr. Offit lied; there’s a newspaper caving to pressure and issuing an apology for published claims to avoid having to defend a lawsuit (that they would probably have won, by the way, but it would have been a hassle).
Sorry, but you have nothing.
I’m sorry you feel that people cannot judge for themselves, for example, by talking to those who lived with vaccine preventable diseases, how important they are. Or that you think it’s in problematic to listen to doctors, who studied for years and whose job is to protect and take care of a child’s health. Needless to say, I don’t see it that way. I am a history buff, and I know how lucky we are not to lose most of our children and not to have to worry about vaccine preventable diseases.
If it was a Dr’s job to protect the health of a newborn that Dr. would be instructing the mother to breastfeed and if that’s not enough, RAW goats milk and then RAW cow’s milk. Then a diet of non GMO foods that are grown naturally. BEST vaccine on the planet. But the medical schools don’t teach nutrition. They teach that disease is bad luck. Sad part is that most Dr’s actually believe this. Proof is that your Dr. will lose his medical license if he prescribes Black Salve for your breast cancer instead of Chemo and Boob removal. You don’t get breast cancer by having too many boobs.
The Good part is the attitude is changing and people are starting to question medical “wisdom” and take their health into their own hands.
There are 2 reasons you get sick.. You are starving yourself (bad diet) or you are poisoning yourself (Bad diet) seems the best fix is better diet.
Why would I want to risk giving my child listeria or campylobacteriosis?
Black salve? Use a tar to eat away your skin, leaving you disfigured?
Really? Those are your suggestions?
One death is from a vaccine is stonking rare. If each word of the blog post were a life saved by a vaccine, deaths from a vaccine would be represented by less than a letter.
136 or so deaths from HPV vaccine already…
What you have there is a reference to reports of death after a vaccine, not evidence of deaths from a vaccine. Investigations into VAERS reports have not shown serious problems causally associated with the vaccine.
Conversely, 4000 women die annually from cervical cancer, 2/3 of which from serotypes covered by the HPV vaccine.
And even if dr wakefield’s article is total bunk- shall we talk about all the govt payouts to those victims who PROVED autism was caused by their vaccines?
I think “proved” is a pretty strong word in this case. I think “possible” is more accurate.
There has never been a link to vaccines and autism. Dr Wakefield was a quack and his research could never be reproduced with the same results. You need to be able to follow the same steps someone takes on a multiple level that show the same results to consider that research valid. Since no one could he would be considered invalid or unreliable. But go ahead and not vaccinate your baby, but keep your walking baby killer away from other children.
As a certified autism interventionist, I have to disagree.
What is the mechanism by which vaccines cause autism? I’ve never quite understood it and I’d love to hear it from an expert. Please no stats or studies, but just a clear and logical explanation or a link to an article would be great. I look forward to your response! Also, if vaccines do cause autism could you please also provide information on the risk/benefit analysis of vaccination vs autism? Studies and stats are fine for this, but please only credible, peer-reviewed publications. I’ve looked myself, but unfortunately I’ve only been able to turn up blogs and threads based on opinion. I assume someone in your field should have immediate access to this kind of information. Thank you!
No response? I wouldn’t call that coincidental!
Here is an interview from Dr. Wakefield himself explaining his case and findings. It also includes 28 links to other studies completed around the world that proved the same thing he found to be true. Listen to his side of the story before you judge him and all he went through in the aftermath of his findings. He’s not the only one who discovered this, but sadly, he’s labeled as the “fall out” person and was completely discredited for what he was bold enough to share. Not everyone who is against vaccines is ignorant of research, I have personally spent countless hours researching myself after my son had adverse reactions to his 4month old vaccines. If Dr. Wakefield was wrong and there was no link between a gut problem caused by vaccines and Autism, my son would not be the amazingly high functioning 5 year old he is today. I researched this study and others like it, doing whatever I could to reverse his so called Autism, and he’s not the same child who I brought home from the Doctors office the last day I allowed him to be vaccinated. I could elaborate, but I feel most who are reading this, and more importantly, commenting, are seemingly purposefully refusing to see the research that shows the lack of safety of vaccines. Am I wanting children to suffer from horrid diseases, or worse? Of course not! But there has to be a better way to care for our children than to inject them with poisons and hope they turn out OKAY!
Rochelle, Wakefield was debunked by years and years of serious investigation into his claim. He says he’s been smeared yet hasn’t won a defamation law suit to date. The General Medical Council slapped him with the harshest sanction possible ending his career as a doctor. Regardless of my opinion on his conspiracy theories as to why he was canned, I believe those who have an in depth knowledge of medical science are better equipped to pass judgement on this matter, don’t you? No tortured story by a disgusting doctor defending himself is going to change my mind.
“Here is an interview from Dr. Wakefield himself explaining his case and findings.”
This is pretty well addressed by a quote from CNN’s Anderson Cooper in an interview with Wakefield.
“But, sir, if you’re lying, then your book is also a lie. If your study is a lie, your book is a lie.”
In this case, interview.
As somebody who stands to gain financially from this, your opinion is questionable, at best.
Oh, so you “spread” the new ADHD/ ADD. Thanks! Every single time they change the guidelines of any mental “disorder” the numbers skyrocket, more medications can be given, more money made for the companies. Heck, just because I dislike looking at people in the face when I talk to them, someone would consider diagnosing me with autism.
What is a “certified autism interventionist”?
The entire medical consensus of experts and research doesn’t care if you agree, nor about your credentials.
What on earth is that? An online certification?
Why are people saying there is no vaccine-autism link? I’ve personally read nearly 30 studies – and I have barely studied the topic at all. Mostly I just come across them when researching the immune system. Anyways, here is just one for you, published in the Journal of Entropy in 2012 :
Empirical Data Confirm Autism Symptoms Related to
Aluminum and Acetaminophen Exposure
Carla, did you read that study? It actually didn’t link anything – they never actually conducted a study. The “scientists” use word algorithms to sample a public vaccine database to cross reference symptoms. The words used in the reports are associations only and don’t suggest or imply any actual connection.
Although they used the numbers, they forgot to mention that they looked and found the word autism (or autistic) 1,734 times out of 340,000 vaccine entries, that’s only 0.51%. The CDC actually reports that 1 in 88 Americans have autism (1.13%) leaving a disconnect even in their sampled data (which still wasn’t based on any associations.)
The authors also used TERRIBLY inaccurate sentences such as, “MMR
was significantly more likely to be associated with autism” which is a great quote to pull out to support false claims. But then they go on to clarify that what they are referring to is actually words that are were more often to appear in entries about the MMR vaccine words that came up more frequently when they customized an algorithm to find autism – and not in the broad database, but only in the limited set that they chose to review. They go on to do the same thing with the presence of Aluminum and other vaccine types, too, continuing to use worrisome phrases, when they’re actually referring to a word database and computer software they used to parse the number of times words they wanted to find showed up. From a medical study standpoint, it’s terrible methodology, and unlikely to mean anything at all.
This study is the a shining example of someone looking really hard to find something and forcing together variables to support a claim. I find it very sad that they’ve purposely misconstrued data and tried to continue furthering information like this.
If you do not like that study, here are 22 more linking vaccines and autism. These are all peer reviewed and PUBLISHED in medical journals. Hence, when someone states “there are no studies linking vaccines to autism..” I often feel like pulling out my hair. There are a lot of studies. Nothing PROVING anything – but there certainly is a link that has been well documented.
The 22 studies Kat posted – debunked thoroughly
Sorry, Carla, that list of 22 papers is a recycled list of junk-science papers that show nothing. None of the 22 show that vaccines are linked in any way to autism.
Sorry Carla, but if you want to post studies, you may want to actually read them first. I started with the first couple, and after getting through the one that linked autism to autoimmunity, I stopped bothering. I think this is the crux of the issue though. People like yourself, who lack scientific comprehension, are lead to believe these studies link autism to vaccines when the truth is, you just have no idea what you are even reading. But hey, some blog linked the studies up so you are just going along with the conjecture.
Here is a good video breakdown of why Mr Wakefield was wrong and the subsequent studies that were done to show there is no link
The Journal of Entropy is a journal in which the authors pay someone to publish their work- read this independent blog
Not so fast there, Carla. Those papers don’t say what you think or claim they do.
Take a look here. If you keep an open mind about it, as educated people do, you might learn something.
Those studies do not show a vaccine autism link and have been debunked numerous times.
You are showing your confirmation bias.
Entropy is a open access journal with an impact factor of 1.347, which is extremely low. In skimming the article I uncovered a number of flaws. Others have explained this to you.
I appears that you have ignored all the high impact journal articles and cherry-picked one to suit your purpose.
I wonder how long it will be before we see a vaccinated child’s parents sue the parents of an unvaccinated child because that child gave the other one a disease?
I actually have an article of that, referenced and summarized in this blog post (sorry for the shameless plug): http://shotofprevention.com/2013/09/12/legal-responsibilities-in-choosing-not-to-vaccinate/
what proof Yvonne. Dr Wakefield twisted and faked result because it was all linked to his own financial gain. That is why he was struck off by the GMC General medical council. You bring proof.
Here is an example of another study confirming the results of Dr. Wakefield’s original study. (The results have been duplicated in studies all over the world) It was not the content of Wakefield’s study which was deemed faulty, but the way in which he obtained his data.
This is a journal where author’s can pay to have their work published- it typically bypasses the peer-review science. It’s a growing phenomenon and it makes it very difficult to detect real science from crap.
Things like this are not “proven” in the civil justice system. To prevail in a civil suit you need only convince a jury that compensation is warranted. There is no “proof beyond a reasonable doubt”, there is simply “made a stronger case than the other guy”. Wakefield’s work could easily have been used to sway jurors, as could any sufficiently sad story pitted against a government or program that is unpopular with the jury.
There have been ZERO payouts from the USA vaccine court for autism.
There have been payouts where one of the claims was autism, but in every single case the payout has been for a condition other than autism. Most often encephalitis (a known risk of some vaccines).
Encephalitis is not, and does not cause autism.
I remember when I was you! For over 30 years! I even co-authored work while obtaining my graduate degree years ago reiterating the lack of a link between autism and vaccinations. (Vaccines do NOT cause autism! Vaccines cause encephalitis. Encephalitis causes autism. Get it right.) My oldest child is fully vaccinated. Then one day, my sister-in-law woke up and couldn’t see! Her vision was gone. We rushed her to the ER and they found inflammation behind her eyes. But her vitals were good, and they could not determine what caused it. The only thing that she had “changed” or that had “happened” or that she had “encountered” from her typical daily routine was that she had received a shot of Gardasil about 2 days prior. The doctors (at the ER as well as her obgyn) said that it was just a coincidence, and completely unrelated to the vaccine. She trusted them. She got 2 more doses of Gardasil over the next few months, each time she became very dizzy and sweaty within a few hours and had blurred vision. After the second shot they STILL said it was not related and so she got the third. Now she has permanent damage to her eyes and inflammation that does not go away. It is extremely painful (according to her) and there is not much that she can do for it. Her vision was affected and she has joined a group for other women who have been injured by the Gardasil shot – not surprisingly, she has met at least two other women whose vision has also been affected and who have inflammation behind one or both eyes (so similar side effects). Her obgyn FINALLY concluded that her health concerns are a direct result of the vaccine, but she has no idea if he reported her case to VAERS or not. He said she doesn’t have a case to receive compensation because she isn’t currently receiving any treatment (there is none) and compensation usually covers the cost of treatment. Since this has happened, we have done some digging and found a tremendous amount of research showing that vaccines are not safe and have never been proven safe. Did you know that often times when they do safety testing, they do not observe vaccinated vs. unvaccinated? They observe vaccinated with the disease vs. vaccinated with an aluminum placebo. So, both subjects are getting aluminum. If they have similar side effects, the vaccine is considered safe. Please research the horrendous side effects of aluminum on the body, and you will know what I’m talking about. Did people die from these “vaccine-preventable diseases?” Yes. That is a sad reality. People also die from the vaccines. That is also reality. But a healthy immune system is better able to fight off bacteria and viruses, and in most cases (FACT), these diseases are benign. There is some evidence that by getting childhood diseases, the immune system is strengthened. If you want to be healthy, you should eat REAL, WHOLE food, exercise, drink lots of water, and get plenty of sleep and sunshine. Does this sound good for the immune system: vaccines full of adjuvant , known neurotoxins, and DNA from other animals? I don’t know about you (actually, I do, you are uneducated and blindly follow the crowd.) But I’m going to trust my immune system to what brought me here. And I have millions of years of evolution on my side.
So please, go read a book, while you still have your vision.
“Vaccines do NOT cause autism! Vaccines cause encephalitis. Encephalitis causes autism. Get it right.”
Actually there is not much good evidence causally linking vaccines to encephalitis either.
With respect to autoimmune conditions, unfortunately some times they occur without needing any known trigger. HPV vaccine has not been found to trigger autoimmune conditions such as you describe.
“They observe vaccinated with the disease vs. vaccinated with an aluminum placebo. So, both subjects are getting aluminum.”
With Gardasil, the tested against both a saline placebo and the aluminum containing excipient placebo.
Thanks for this. It needs to be said more. The anti-vaccination crowd threaten the undermine herd immunity.
The human “herd” is undermining nature, which gave us life in the first place. When nature is destroyed, what will remain? Why do humans find the laws of nature so hard to accept and apply to its own species?
I’d like you to head on over to your nearest hospital. Go on up to the NICU and ask the first mother you see why on earth she thinks she has the right to not accept the laws of nature. Do it.
Interesting point Kat. Are you implying that by vaccinating and preventing disease we are undermining nature? That the deaths of tens of thousands of children a year due to a preventable disease is simply part of nature, and something we should allow to continue?
I certainly hope that you do not live in a house (the construction of a temperature-controlled environment is certainly undermining nature.) Furthermore, I certainly hope that you do not own, operate, or are a passenger in a motor vehicle. Certain nature intended for us to move entirely through the use of our feet.
You would not be alive today if not for the fact that human beings, as a global society, have been “undermining” nature since the beginning of our existence.
If you want to draw some theoretical “line in the sand” about what parts of nature we as a society can or cannot fight against, I suggest you draw that line somewhere that does not potentially lead to a horrible, life-threatening, debilitating disease that targets children.
In conclusion, you ask why “humans find the laws of nature so hard to accept.” Let me make something very clear to you: survival is, first and foremost, the most fundamental law of any living organism. Any species that doesn’t have the will to survive is quickly killed off. Vaccinations exist for the purpose of preventing death and allowing people the chance to survive and live, and therefore are in alignment with the most fundamental law of nature.
Don’t throw around your “certified autism interventionist” title like it actually means anything. Your pseudo-science and conspiracy theories have no place in an educated community.
Well said! My assumption is that she bought her ‘qualification’ on ebay.
Vaccinations APPEAL to our fundamental instinct for survival. NOT necessarily to our actually surviving. It gives us the impression that we are cheating death somehow and we get a kick out of that. Yet I state again 139 girls dead because of HPV Vaccine.
Funny that when you look at the Statistics from CDC and many other places.. It turns out that the Medical Profession is the number one killer of North Americans. from Iatrogenic disease to Vaccine deaths to mis diagnoses and bad prescriptions – the medical cartel kills more individuals than Stroke, Heart disease diabetes and cancer COMBINED.
Read the book Dead Dr’s Don’t Lie. But that is a General Medical problem that INCLUDES Vaccine deaths among many others, so it’s not the real issue, just thought I would bring it to the attention of the people here. And I also re-iterate – If a Dr. was truly concerned about he Patients health, they would be prescribing good food, no chemicals, exercise and lowering stress levels. But you see, if they do that, they lose their medical license.
Please – Can someone verify that Cancer is a trademarked and copyrighted disease? Or Autism, Or Diabetes or anything else that the Medical profession states cannot be cured but has been PROVEN to be reversible with diet?
That has to be the most unintelligent comment I have read in a very long time. Do you use a car seat for your child? Give your child antibiotics when he is sick? Or do you let nature take its course? Trust that your child will be strong and healthy enough to withstand the impact of an automobile crash?
You obviously have never been in a children’s hospital. Nor held your dying daughter as she was taking her last breath. And I pray you never have to.
The laws of nature suggest that those people who choose not to vaccinate will be destroyed if some of these diseases should ever come back to the levels they previously were before the invention of vaccinations. Survival of the fittest, or should I say most intelligent?
The laws of nature dictate that those with a healthy immune system WILL survive and those without – Vaccinated or not – will not survive. And you are going to call me a quack now because I dis medical “wisdom.” well, If Ian in a car crash – I want pain killers and the trauma team to fix me up as best they can.. Unless I’m broken at the neck (QUAD) or a vegetable, then please just let me die. If it’s a disease – Nature handles them MUCH better than any medical science will.
I probably would NOT use a child seat if it wasn’t the law, nor would I wear my seat belt (I knew people who are dead BECA– USE they were wearing them). I would and have worn a 5 point harness while racing cars however.
I would give my child antibiotics if there were a reason to, but those antibiotics would come from Clove oil, Oregano oil, lavender and some other special blends because I will NOT poison myself or my kids. This IS Nature taking it’s course when you know and study her and what her abilities are. The only reason there ARE medical antibiotics is because Mom works. They take Mom’s ideas and make fake chemical representations of them so they can be patented – there’s that follow the money again – Trouble is the antibiotics are a chemical representation of what nature will kick ass with. Medical antibiotics are exactly the same all the time. Yes, the Pharma industry PRIDES itself on the fact it’s penicillin is exactly the same as it was the last time and the time 1000 times before that. This causes super bugs.
Essential oils (the worlds FIRST antibiotics) are NOT the same all the time because nature isn’t perfect. The bugs get hit once and try to adapt. They get hit again with a similar thing but a bit different – so their previous adaptation is ineffective and they die. Simple science that proves Nature is better than Pharma.
Penicillin isn’t what it used to be, but Lavender or tea tree oil is as effective as it has always been. Given it is a pure extract and the plants are NOT GMO and are grown in a natural fashion. Boost the immune system and you won’t need to add chemicals and poisons to our childs system. And when the system is compromised – Use Mom’s best weapons against them. Essential Oils. Will Essential Oils Cure Autism? Nope, because I believe that Autism is one of those trademarked and copyrighted diseases that there IS no cure for (like Diabetes and Cancer) so you have to rely on nature to eliminate these conditions from your body.
But Kat earlier you were saying vaccines don’t work.
Now you are saying they do work, but undermine nature.
Which is it?
In other words, we should stop trying to eradicate diseases because nature wants people to die from them? Aren’t you undermining nature as you sit at your computer and type indignant little rants against vaccines? So tell me, do you undermine nature by taking tylenol when you have a headache, or cold medicine when you are sick? If you have some heart trouble later on in life, are you going to undermine nature by taking beta blockers or having a bypass? Do you undermine nature by shaving your legs and brushing your teeth? Do you undermine nature by driving a car to work? This survival of the fittest argument against vaccines is the most idiotic of all, because you know damn well that the idiot making the argument isn’t living in a cave surviving off berries and grubs but by some hypocrite that benefits from the modern world’s comveniences and amenities. I would go elsewhere if I were you, you have been outclassed.
Herd immunity is so obviously a flawed theory. Look up all these “outbreaks” of diseases we’ve vaccinated against. In Every. Single. Case. vaccine rates were between 90-95% or above and ALL herd immunity research shows it needs to be between 80-90% vaccinated to work. Clearly herd immunity is not a reality.
General vaccination rates over a population does not mean that those rates can’t be lower in certain specific areas. There are often pockets or clusters of unvaccinated people, even in areas with high overall vaccination rates. If you actually look up these outbreaks (I don’t know why the quotes), you’ll find that it’s the unvaccinated who get sick, almost entirely. In the measles outbreaks in the U.S. and other places, they start with unvaccinated people, and the unvaccinated are the vast majority of those who get the disease, in spite of being, in general, less than 5 % of the population.
April, basically you are wrong.
Most outbreaks, like the one recently in Wales, occurred in populations with low vaccination rates.
Measles is endemic in every under vaccinated population on this planet. In every highly vaccinated population it is near eradicated.
In areas of Europe with even slightly lower measles vax rate the incidence is ordersof magnitude higher than either the USA, canada or Australia with very high vax rates.
The USA gets tens of cases a year. (Before the vaccine there hundreds of thousands of cases) Of those cases nearly every one has its point of origin as an unvaccinated individual from overseas. Of the cases that then do occur around 80% are in the unvaccinated.
This trend is seen worldwide.
The only exception is pertussis, where the vaccine effectiveness is sometimes as low as 60% and wanes in under a decade. For the current acellular pertussis vaccine you would need around 98% vax rate with boosters far more often to achieve a reasonable level of herd immunity.
As it is the vaccine reduces your chance of pertussis by around 8 times.
I am not sure why a particular pragmatism isn’t brought to this debate. For instance, many many people die on the operating table getting simple gall bladder surgeries or heart procedures. We do not use that as an excuse to cease these procedures. Nor do we put on our foil hats and accuse the Government of covering up the operating room deaths. We know they happen to a small percentage of people, but the vast majority of people recover and are given their lives back.
Some people will suffer side effects from having vaccinations, some people will die from a dental procedure too, but the certainty of death and disability on a mass scale from unvaccinated humans is not something we should be willing to suffer.
this may not be a very popular opinion so if you disagree, let’s just agree to disagree … i am not posting this to be inflammatory and do not with to be attacked for my beliefs … i simply believe in the seeking out facts so i can make an informed decision rather than blindly “obeying” what i am told to do
interesting fact about all vaccines … they are suspended in mercury and that mercury is injected into a human body as a way of delivering the dead virus
interesting fact the polio vaccine … although there are inexpensive ways to create a synthetic and humane polio vaccine, the drug companies still choose to use a heavy paralytic drug to immobilize rhesus monkeys so their kidney’s can be “harvested” while it is alive … the monkey can feel everything as it is cut open and has it’s kidney’s removed … if the monkey does not die from shock during the procedure, it is killed later
there is compelling documentation that points to the origin of aids starting with the polio vaccine … please watch the video and come to your own conclusions
last fact but most crucial to my argument … the human race wants to be exempt from the nature’s laws and does it’s best to outsmart and control nature so we can live longer and beat disease … the fact is, there are 7 billion humans and counting that are outsourcing the natural resources of the earth and subsequently destroying it … we are “breeding” our way into extinction and the entire collapse of the earth’s universal environment … humans
what makes the human race so entitled to break the laws of nature? what makes the human species so deserving to be entitled to outlive all other species and control the destiny of the earth? isn’t it about time humans stop controlling nature and allow natural checks and balances to control a species that refuses to self regulate itself?
Kat – feel free to troll all you wish, but let’s not confuse your unfounded and ignorant opinions with facts.
1. “interesting fact about all vaccines … they are suspended in mercury and that mercury is injected into a human body as a way of delivering the dead virus”
Incorrect. Thimerosal (the mercury-containing preservative suggested by conspiracy theorists as another potential autism-causing compound) was removed from all vaccines except for multiple-dose vials of the Influenza vaccine in 2001. There are thimerosal-free influenza vaccines available in case you wish to persevere in thimerosal-phobia. However, no validated study has shown a link between thimerosal and autism or neurologic disorders. In fact, the incidence of autism has continued to rise since removal of thimerosal from vaccines which would argue against any association.
2. “interesting fact the polio vaccine … although there are inexpensive ways to create a synthetic and humane polio vaccine, the drug companies still choose to use a heavy paralytic drug to immobilize rhesus monkeys so their kidney’s can be “harvested” while it is alive …”
Also incorrect. The polio vaccine is made in monkey kidney cell *lines* not primary cells. Cell lines are grown in the lab from one generation to the next, without needing to retrieve cells from an animal for each “batch.” Ethical considerations aside, if you had any idea of the day-to-day costs of housing, feeding, and providing veterinary support for a colony of primates, you’d realize that what you suggest would be cost-prohibitive to raise and slaughter enough monkeys for large-scale production of the vaccine. However, all facilities that house animals for research are required to have ethical standards of conduct and care – your suggested scenario wouldn’t pass muster with any of them.
3. “there is compelling documentation that points to the origin of aids starting with the polio vaccine … please watch the video and come to your own conclusions”
Personally, I choose not to gather “facts” from a tin foil-hat wearing conspiracy theory website and a 1992 slanderous and highly inaccurate Rolling Stone article, nor from a book full of unsubstantiated conjecture by Wakefield-esque journalist Edward Hooper. There have been several epidemiological studies, as well as investigations into the original cell strains used to generate the polio virus that fail to show any evidence of HIV or SIV (simian immunodeficiency virus) contamination, nor any other link between the oral polio virus and HIV.
Worobey M, Santiago M, Keele B, et al. Origin of AIDS: contaminated polio vaccine theory refuted. Nature . 2004; 428(6985): 820.
Plotkin SA. CHAT oral polio vaccine was not the source of human immunodeficiency virus type 1 group M for humans. Clin. Infect Dis. 2001; Apr 1;32(7): 1068-84.
Plotkin SA. Untruths and consequences: the false hypothesis linking CHAT type 1 polio vaccination to the origin of human immunodeficiency virus. Philos Trans R Soc Lond B Biol Sci. 2001: June 29: 356(1410) 815-23.
If you really believed in “seeking out the facts” to make an informed decision as you say you do, you would recognize that posting unsubstantiated, debunked conspiracy theory as “fact” is irresponsible and dangerous.
I think I may love you. NEVER watch and believe an online documentary.
Which means you should also never watch and believe anything off line either. Anything can be made up these days. Gee whiz.. even photo’s of my brother in laws last photo shoot could have been doctored and the event may never have happened. But, you know – He’s my BIL, so it’s a pretty credible source when it comes to what he does for a living. REALLY? NEVER believe any documentary from the internet? And CNN is better? or the AMA? A closed body union shop that threatens the career of any Dr. that actually believes that nutrition is the cause of health and treats his patients accordingly? Really? Come on.. that is a LUDICROUS statement to make. No we don’t agree on stuff, but that is grasping at straws.. No not everything is correct here in internet land, but much is. But you know.. the AMA doesn’t have any financial interest in keeping us in the dark either. Guess what – I learned almost everything i know about non medical care over the internet and guess what.. I have survived cancer twice because of nutrition. No Chemo and NO MD’s telling me what to do. They tell me my condition and I tell them what I am going to do. No arguments. They monitor that is all. Fact is – one of my conditions could not be figured out by 7 MD’s including specialists. Went to a Naturapath – told him my symptoms. Took him about 15 minutes of questions to “guess” what it was. He even pulled out his anatomy book to show me what was possibly going on. He took a hair sample sent me for some tests. A week later, he gave me a diet plan based on the results of my blood type and the nutrients and minerals my body was missing. Other tests showed he was right in his guess. Then he said to go see a chiropractor. and follow his diet. In about 8 weeks there were no more symptoms. A year later – no signs. My then MD wouldn’t have anything to do with it so I fired him. And I walk the earth to this day. That was 15 years ago. Remember – If it’s not natural, you cannot patent it. If you cannot patent it, there is less money to be made because you don’t have the exclusive… ALL Pharma is patented and therefore not a substance found in nature, but a reasonable facsimile thereof made from some kind of chemical or coal tar. Our bodies are such incredible machines and know what they need to do. Just like a carpenter building a house… Lumber and manpower is great, but if you don’t have the nails, you aren’t building anything. Nutrition is our nails. NOT Vaccines or anything else fake. Just my humble opinion. We cannot outdo nature. Nature is indeed nasty and if you don’t look after yourself she’ll get you. (sorry ladies – I’m old school 🙂 )
It’s interesting to note that an essential oil company out there has a special blend that is good for antibiotic and viruside etc… I won’t mention the name because they aren’t getting paid for it and I respect the forum. This company uses this special blend because it is an “ancient” recipe dating back to the bubonic plague. As you know there were many deaths and no one would go near them because they were afraid they too would die. And it was fairly certain that they would indeed die, nasty as the Bubonic Plague was. Well there was this certain gang of Thieves that made a special blend of essential oils, soaked a cloth with it, tied it around their mouth and nose then proceeded to loot all the dead bodies. Most of them survived to everyone’s astonishment. That blend of oils was part of the recovery process for the bubonic plague. True story (as far as history books go) and gives you an idea of what good essential oils will indeed do.
You can ingest this oil. Although it IS potent healing so use caution – and the testimonies from it would knock you over. Again, will it cure autism? Probably not but with the right usage may eliminate the need for vaccines all together.
THAT would solve this issue right there. If there were less autism without any need for vaccines, that would be conclusive proof they caused it. Until then there really is only speculation. And the other stuff works better anyway. AND it’s cheaper. You just have to take responsibility for yourself and there is wherin lies another issue for discussion…
Are we responsible for our own health or not? I say yes, we are. Period. So read, learn all you can. Watch the video’s and pay attention to the science and the money behind the science – it’s all important. There are MD’s and scientist that are so full of heart out there and are doing whatever they can to improve our ways of life. God Bless ’em! We love you for your efforts. There are others that only want your money. What we need to do is find out what works for us and use it. Without fear. Make the best choice for you. For me it’s the natural way. Because we cannot outdo Mom.
Thank you. Also, delightful side fact, a virus is a non-living organism. Therefore cannot be dead. Inert, disabled, non-threatening, viruses are what are used now for vaccines.
Kat, that is also incorrect.
The semantics if whether a virus or alive or not does not change the fact that the actions of the virus can be deactivated. It can be stopped from replicating, from invading cells and producing more copies of itself. Or sometimes it can be made to do it less well. Or in fact just some pieces of chemical that look like the virus can be used. All of these will produce an immune response.
And don’t forget the vaccines for bacteriums….Or Kat are those viruses too.
Hear hear !! Well said !!!
Kat, your facts are not facts. In fact they are simply wrong.
Your opinion should be unpopular because it is founded in ignorance.
“interesting fact about all vaccines … they are suspended in mercury and that mercury is injected into a human body as a way of delivering the dead virus”
Interesting fact about some vaccines – They are against bacteria, not viruses (e.g. meningococcal, TB, tetanus, pneumococcus, whooping cough). They are given nasally or orally, not as injections (Flumist, RotaTeq). They contain ‘live’ viruses and thus don’t contain anything mercury related (MMR, Varivax).
I would rather my child was autistic than dead. I’d rather take the risks of side effects than the risks of not having him here at all. Period.
Even if the risk of the vaccine is death? Again, not anti-vaccine…just trying hard to come to grips with the fact my friend lost her baby due to the MMR vaccine last week. A side effect of the vaccine can be death, and in her case…it was, sadly.
I am very sorry for the loss of your friends baby girl. How horrible.
Yes – even if the risk of the vaccine is death. The vaccine is still the safer choice than the disease.
Stephanie, I’m very sorry for your friend’s loss. If you don’t mind, can you tell us where this happened?
The vaccine does not eliminate the possibility of a child being dead and may in fact bring that about very quickly. In the debates about autism, the many, many other issues that a vaccine can cause are too often ignored.
But let’s say that he had a 1/300 chance of becoming autistic–severely mentally impaired, like my sibling, with screaming rages as an ADULT, having to live at home, needing constant care, lunging and lashing out and pinching when provoked–I say 1/300 because not all cases of autism are that severe. Let’s also say that with NO vaccine, he might be exposed to polio, and there was a 1/1,000 chance that he would contract it and die despite the best medical treatment? (Even in its heyday polio only took about 1/1000 with any residual effects–i.e., not recovering fully. With better care, no doubt today the prognosis could be even better.)
So 1/300 serious brain injury; 1/1,000 death (that would be WITH an imminent polio outbreak, btw). Of course we’d say better brain injury than death, but is it even right for me to roll the dice on that for my child? Would I want someone to do that for me, if I weren’t currently conscious and able to decide? To sign a waiver on something that might save my life, but might also permanently brain-damage me?
There’s a better way. I won’t defend my position constantly to those who aren’t interested, but I know what I’m talking about. My email is [email protected], and I welcome hearing from the likeminded as well. I’d be interested in the studies Kat mentioned.
Kat you are certified as in BCABA or BCBA? or just “certified” through your work to work with children with autism?
You would be one of the first interventionists I have seen to actually defend Wakefield or link autism to vaccinations. Wakefield was shown to take money, have conflicting interests, and shown to alter data to make his findings.
You will have probably come across the studies in Japan where they removed mercury from their vaccinations and yet autism still increased.
As someone in the field, you’ll have to know that more has been added to the DSM to help diagnose this spectrum disorder. With more people learning about the disorder, they are able to diagnose it. Look at Gerontology, Dementia is more closely being looked at, what was classified as “senile” before now has many different diagnosis and treatment. Is it on the rise or better diagnosed now?
As a parent, I know it’s concerning trying to determine if what we are putting in our childrens’ bodies is safe and autism is scary to deal with. But if we take parents as the ones diagnosing their children, of course they will look for something to blame. Why not blame what is the hot topic?
Adverse effects are real, and a correlation has to be shown, which is when payments are made out. I know someone who was paralyzed from the h1n1 vaccine and many others have been as well. They were able to show documentation of life prior and after the vaccine.
As an interventionist, you are only with the child once there is a concern about their delay. Did they say the child made eye contact consistently, verbal, not focused on redundant tasks prior to the vaccinations?
I am saddened by your approach to this topic. I find the word choice offensive, flippant, and purposeful for stirring up controversy or popularity rather than trying really to educate the non-vaccinators in the world. Articles like this make it difficult to separate wild, emotional opinions from well-founded unbiased research.
You ARE reading an article written on a page called BLUNT MOMS. No sugar coating here.
I actually think it is fairly eloquent, and raises important points. And I don’t think sarcasm is verboten in these discussions.
The article isn’t correct. I’m not a medical professional. Herd immunity doesn’t work unless 90% are vaccinated in healthy sample group. Now a days far less are immunized. Those who are not immunized are at risk. There are many myths but I believe this information is accurate.
Hey Corrina, what exactly are you saying is incorrect? I never stated any numbers about what makes the herd immunity effective. I did say that the measles vaccine is only 95% effective and that is correct.
She is saying that the whole premise of your article, “you’re welcome,” is not accurate because herd immunity only exists when better than 90 percent of the population is immunized. If less than 90 percent of individuals are immunized, as stated, herd immunity is not conferred. In that scenario, there is no reason to be telling unvaccinated individuals “you’re welcome,” because you aren’t providing them any service. Without herd immunity, they are still at risk.
I suppose a lot of that depends on geographics. Where I live the vaccination rate is extremely high so the herd immunity actually does exist and is effective. I understand there are variables and things to consider ( like people who travel and bring disease back) and that 90% is more effective than say 85% but that 85% is not insignificant either.
The risk of side effects from the MMR are greater than the risks from the measles. You could have included that in your article.
Here’s a really great article for people with plenty of SOURCES. But I’ll summarize below:
According to the CDC, on average less than 100 people get measles in the USA each year. This year, 159 cases have been reported so far. The worst outbreak in the last 20 years was in 1996 when 500 cases were reported.
Measles complications: About 30% of people who get measles will get pneumonia, an ear infection, or diarrhea. For the most part these things are treatable. Sadly, though, 1 in every 1000 people who gets measles will get encephalitis – which can lead to convulsions, permanent deafness or severe mental disability. Between 1 and 2 children out of every 1000 infected will die.
MMR Vaccination: The MMR vaccination is designed to prevent Measles, Mumps and Rubella. As few as 1 in 6 people will have some kind of reaction to the MMR vaccine. These reactions are usually minor and include things like fever, rash and swollen glands. 1 in 1,000,000 (a million) recipients will experience a severe reaction including deafness, long-term seizures, coma, lowered consciousness or permanent brain damage. I suspect this number may be higher but only 1 in 1,000,000 were able to be definitively linked to the vaccine.
Risks of MMR vaccine: We will go with the CDC’s conservative estimate that 1 in 1 million recipients of the MMR vaccine have a severe reaction including deafness, long-term seizures, coma, lowered consciousness or permanent brain damage. Even though 20% of the people who contract measles have been vaccinated, and therefore assume some of wild measles risks as well, for the sake of simplicity we’ll assume the only risk vaccinated children face are from the vaccine itself.
Risks of Wild Measles to my child: Unlike the vaccine which presents a one time risk to the recipient, if you choose not to vaccinate, you put your child at risk every year. Even though the CDC says that 100 people get measles on average every year, let’s use 250 as an average number of people infected in order to account for some years with much higher outbreaks as well as the climbing rate of children who are unvaccinated.
During the first 12 years of a child’s life, 3000 people in the USA will get measles (12 years x 250 a year). Statistically, 9 of those will have severe complications. The 2010 census determined there are 74,181,467 children in the USA. This makes an unvaccinated child’s risk of complication 9 out of 74,181,467 or 1 in 8.24 million.
Therefore, the risk of complications from the MMR vaccine is 1 in 1 million. The risk of complications from the wild measles is 1 in 8.24 million. Clearly, the vaccine comes with more risk. Numbers and facts are great.
The reason the risk of complications from an MMR vaccine is “higher” is found in your first paragraph. Only 100 people on average acquire measles/year.
Also, I would recommend the articles authors take a class in statistics. If they have taken a statistics class, then they need to go get there money back.
I think for this argument to be valid, you would have to look at the rate of infections in an unvaccinated population. If you could show me that in UNVACCINATED children, the rate of serious complications from a measles infection was 1 in 8.24 million, I might consider not vaccinating my child. But you are looking at the US population, of which the vast majority of children IS vaccinated. Which is why they don’t get measles, which is why they have a lower number (not rate, but number) of serious complications. MANY more children get vaccinations.
I would rather take my chance of a 1 out of 1M risk of serious complications from vaccination than a 1 out of 1,000 risk of serious complications if my unvaccinated child contracts measles. The reason your unvaccinated kid has a 1 in 8.24M risk (this number is flawed because they are assuming only children contract measles, but I’m going with it because it’s late and I’m tired) is because my kids took a 1 in 1M risk to get vaccinated.
*their money back.
Yes, when weighing the risks/benefits of each decision.. it is smart to stick with the statistics from the current year. Otherwise the risks/benefits would be calculated for something that is nonexistent, and therefore, a nonissue.
Is this real life?
You are a stupid, crazy bitch. This article is a real piece of shit. God damn you!! …babies in their first 18 months of life, with their immune systems still developing, being hit by a tidal wave of poison and shite (vaccines)
Sure hope you don’t have any children ….
Well, so much for intelligent, adult discourse.
Silly, children are exposed to thousands of antigens every day. So what poison are you talking about? I suggest you stop reading websites that call themselves vactruth or natural news or one world truth.
You must be a very, very, VERY small person if 0.5mL is ‘a tidal wave’.
The level of immunization needed for herd immunity is different for every vaccine, Corrina. We have great herd immunity to measles, because measles vaccine is 99% effective with two doses and lasts a lifetime. We have poor herd immunity to pertussis because the vaccine is somewhat less effective and has a shorter duration. But we can still *reduce* the spread of pertussis by vaccination strategies.
But yes, the unvaccinated have the vaccinated to thank for protecting them from diseases like measles and polio.
I found out the hard way about 13 years ago that the pertussis vaccine wears off. Let me tell you, getting four fractured ribs out of it was no damn fun.
As soon as I was recovered, i got the update. And I plan on keeping updated whenever I need it.
I wonder if you’d consider interviewing about your experiences growing up for the Before Vaccines blog, Ann, at http://beforevaccines.blogspot.com. You can contact me through the blog or through my facebook page – this is my real name – if you’re interested. I think it’s important to collect the stories who those that actually knew vaccine preventable disease, because today, thanks to vaccines, so many people are unaware.
Let me first state that my 2.5yr old is current on all immunizations. I also am not convienced that imms cause autism and i believe Wakefield is an self serving idiot. Now after saying that I do not think those who don’t vac are doing anything wrong either. Why are so many more children now coming down with singles? Is it because they’ve already had chickenpox (via imms)? If my child comes down with singles I do have to say that I will be upset with myself. I would have rather he experienced chicken pox than shingles at a young age. Next is I believe those who use live imms on their children and thenselves actually put the unvaccinated most at risk because they expel the virus at a higher rate than if the virus occurred naturally, meaning there are more vac kids/ppl who are everywhere among us and expel the disease into our environ vs if a few received the virus and was quarantined for a couple to few weeks. I also believe because the larger majority of people have been immunized the disease now needs to mutate… like the measles may now be doing. The imms may be doing the same as over prescribing antibiotics, making the strains stronger. ‘ Back in the day’ health care providers were the primary disease and infection spreader due to the sanitary (or lack of) conditions and simple lack of hand and utensil washing in clean water. Anyhow as of now I still lean mostly on the side of imms, but I think there is still a lot unnecessary ‘push’ into the imms.
My children are all vaccinated despite serious reserves about the safety of immunizations. Just this past year my healthy 11 year old developed shingles. He didn’t know what it was and hid it from us because it was in an embarrassing location (his bum). By the time we discovered what was going on the whole lower left side of his body which could be covered by wearing clothing was affected. It looked like a modern day version of leprosy, bright red, oozing, chunks of skin falling off, extremely painful. We had no idea what it was until he was diagnosed with shingles, then we were even more baffled! How on earth could he have contracted such a disease?! Well, I’ll tell ya, the chicken pox vaccine played a major role… Looking back, if we knew then what we know now, we most definitely would not choose to vaccinate him with this particular vaccine again. He will most likely suffer from shingles flare ups for the rest of his life now.
Just an fyi to the mom who posted her child got shingles because of the chicken pox vaccine. You need to educate yourself. Anyone who has ever had chicken pox now has the virus in their body and now has the possibility of getting shingles. Chicken pox virus and shingles go hand in hand.
Amen. So right, and yet people still allow their children to have Chicken Pox, which installs the virus so it can just sit around waiting to wreck months of your life with savage pain later.
As opposed to the alternative? (Getting chicken pox as an adult.)
I was a young child in the 60’s and back then, our parents had chicken pox parties. iI can’t wait until next year when I turn 50 so I can get the shingles vaccine. My Mom had it and it was extremely painful.
Lyn, I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but shingles is greatly reduced in vaccinated children.
From a Really great blog:
When it comes to autism and vaccines, why are we still referring to gastrointestinal surgeon Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s research in 1998 regarding the exposure to the measles virus and subsequent development of Crohn’s disease, and in many cases, autism?
Pretty old school – let’s fast forward to May 2011 (over a decade later) to the Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health:
This publication used a regression analysis, the relationship between the proportion of children who received the recommended vaccines by age 2 years and the prevalence of autism in each U.S. state from 2001 and 2007 was determined and evaluated.
What did they find? …
A positive and statistically significant relationship was found: The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of AUT or SLI. A 1% increase in vaccination was associated with an additional 680 children having AUT or SLI. Neither parental behavior nor access to care affected the results, since vaccination proportions were not significantly related (statistically) to any other disability or to the number of pediatricians in a U.S. state. The results suggest that although mercury has been removed from many vaccines, other culprits may link vaccines to autism. Further study into the relationship between vaccines and autism is warranted.
This was published last year. So to simply write off the concern about the administration of vaccines and ASD is impetuous.
This isn’t just one random publication that I found sifting through tons research. There are many.
Please note: I am in no way trying to prove or say that autism is caused by vaccines. I’m trying to say that we need to use caution and diligence when deciding if a particular vaccine is needed – not brush off parental concern.
Here are a few more:
Published in 2011Tomljenovic, Lucija. Christopher Shaw. Do Aluminum Vaccine Adjuvants Contribute to the Rising Prevalence of Autism? Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry. Aug 2011
The positive correlation between Al exposure from vaccines and prevalence of ASD does not necessarily imply causation. However, if the correlation is strong (criterion 1), consistent (criterion 2), and if there is a biologically plausible mechanism by which it can be explained (criterion 6), as well as an appropriate temporal relationship between the proposed cause and the outcome (criterion 4), then the satisfaction of these criteria supports the notion that the two events may indeed be causally related.
Our results satisfy not only all four of the criteria applicable for establishing causation in neuropsychiatry, but also four others.
Published in 2008 David Geier & Mark Geier. A meta-analysis epidemiological assessment of neurodevelopmental disorders following vaccines administered from 1994 through 2000 in the United States. Neuroendocrinology Letters. Vol 27, No4. 2006
There is very current research now questioning the use of aluminum in vaccines and its ability to cause ASD.
Published in 2004Lynne Levitshy. Childhood Immunizations and Chronic Illness. The New England Journal of Medicine. 350:1380-1382. Apr 2004.
We have traded the morbidity and mortality associated with many acute, infectious childhood diseases for the morbidity and mortality associated with more chronic disorders whose causes are as yet uncertain.
I want to add to those disputing anything but pro-vaccine viewpoints that, as I have said repeatedly, science can be wrong and somewhat just downright unethical and we as parents have to “go with our gut” on occasion when we do not believe the science is correct. A very eye opening and informative article was written in the Economist recently about those very concerns. Although the link I provide only shares part of the article, it gives a great synopsis of what is really happening in the scientific community. If people on either side of the fence still have their feet stuck in the mud after reading the article, then they will never see things differently which is the preamble to ignorance.
Not all scientific studies are created equal. You start with a study that says “there is correlation, therefore there is causation”. You don’t actually provide a link to the study or a full citation, so all I have is your quote, and that’s all it said. That is not good science.
Then you address the very flawed Shaw and Tomljenovic 2011 article. Here is an explanation why that study is worthless: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/08/and-global-warming-is-caused-by-the-decr/.
You then cite a study by the father and son Geier team, known for chemically castrating little autistic children, having an Institutional Review Board staffed with chronies approving their research (Institutional Review Boards are supposed to oversee the ethics of the research and make sure it’s not harmful to the research subjects; staff it with friends, and you can do unethical research), being criticized by courts for their incompetent expert testimony, and being sanctioned by medical boards: Mark Geier now lost his license in all states and David was sanctioned for practicing medicine without a license. http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2013/10/20/looking-back-at-two-decades-of-geier/. It’s about as bad a source as you can find.
The specific article you cited – which by the way is from 2006 – http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/Meta-AnalysisStudy.pdf – is typical. They look at VAERs report and assume they show causation (see: http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2013/11/vaers-few-things-we-need-to-discuss.html). They don’t have a control group.
Finally, you have a study by Levitsky, but I could not follow the citation and your quote does not say much.
There is no credible science linking vaccines and autism. There is some fatally flawed anti-vaccine science.
“meaning there are more vac kids/ppl who are everywhere among us and expel the disease into our environ”
Firstly, those vaccinated do not generally expel the virus. You either have to contact their poo or their pus to be exposed, and that’s only for some vaccines.
Secondly, even if they did, it’d be the vaccine version of the virus, which, in many cases, is not particularly virulent. Symptoms, if any, would be minor compared to the wild-type disease.
Thirdly, the vaccine version is easier to fight off, and the numbers never build up as high as they would in someone infected with the wild-type virus, so any shedding would be much less than with a wild-type infection.
Fourthly, the duration of infection is short, so ‘vaccinated people everywhere among us’ aren’t carrying anything for more than a few weeks.
Fifthly, the advantage of being vaccinated is you know those few weeks are the few weeks directly after vaccination, so you know when to isolate yourself, and when not to visit people undergoing chemo etc. With wild-type infections, by the time you know you’ve got it (symptoms appear), you’ve already shed loads into the environment.
Just the general idea that non immunized should thank immunized. I understand that there are far more parents not immunizing therefore the immunized group would not be helping the non immunized.
I shouldn’t get into it because I’m no expert. I’ll shut up. I immunize. I believe in it. I don’t think my children are helping others who aren’t.
Doesn’t matter what you think .. your children ARE helping others who aren’t.
Kat…I know you don’t want to be attacked but if you are a real autism specialist…you should be ashamed of yourself. If you truly believe the things you wrote, you would have to be theist uneducated specialist in the world. You can look up thousands….probably hundreds of thousands of conspiracy theories on the Internet…you are really uneducated enough to post these as “back-up” to your absurd comments? I hope, for the sake of children with autism, you find another line of work
If your child was bit by a dog with rabies, would you then immunize your child from rabies (Rabies IgG and full series)? Rabies is nearly 100% fatal (I believe there is 1 documented case from a young girl in Wisconsin who survived, but with significant neurological sequelae).
If you immunize your child you are a hypocrite, but have saved your child’s life, if you choose not to immunize, you have killed your child….what say you?
This is a terrible example. If your child was sick with a disease that is almost surely fatal of course you would administer the life saving intervention. Most of the vaccines we administer today do not prevent diseases that have the same risk of fatality as rabies. The majority of people who get measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, pertussis, etc do not suffer fatalities. And this surely would not make her a hypocrite.
You’d think that was the case, but I have seen mothers say that they would decline the rabies vaccine.
Their reasoning? There’s a tribe of individuals down in the Amazon Rainforest that has a 80% immunity to measles, ergo it’s possible to survive it.
This is a terrible example. Of course you would administer a life saving intervention to your child if in that situation. Administering all of the vaccines recommended by the aap would be immunizing against viruses that have much lower rates of mortality. The numbers of people who die from measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, pertussis, etc. are all relatively low, especially if you are comparing to rabies. So no, if she chooses to save her child from rabies she is not a hypocrite. just choosing an intervention that is necessary, not optional or suggested.
No, it does make her a hypocrite…..
“what makes the human race so entitled to break the laws of nature? what makes the human species so deserving to be entitled to outlive all other species and control the destiny of the earth? isn’t it about time humans stop controlling nature and allow natural checks and balances to control a species that refuses to self regulate itself?”
Using her quote, by her changing the outcome, it does. Thus, it’s not a terrible example.
It’s Mr. Wakefield, not Dr. Wakefield.
I wanted to comment that the removal of the mercury-containing substance from the vaccinations greatly reduced the amount of time that the vaccination is viable… leading to less being able to be given to remote locations due to concerns about preservation.
Also, due to human development, autism typically becomes apparent around 18-24 months. This led to the accusation that the vaccine causes autism, however, autism is occurring in spite of vaccination status. (My experience is as a PCA, CNA, and as a 4th year BSN student who paid attention in school, especially microbiology and knows how to evaluate research sources)
I also wanted to address and explain the definition of herd immunity:
Different diseases have different rates of spread. The premise of herd immunity depends on how contagious the disease is. This is explained when you think about one person with the chicken pox (as an example, I don’t know the real data for chicken pox). If that one person is capable of infecting 20 people while they are contagious with chicken pox, then we need at least 19 of those people to be vaccinated to prevent the spread of chicken pox. When 19/20 (or 95%) of the people that the sick person is likely to encounter are vaccinated, then the disease will not take off and infect an entire community because only one person would be infected by each sick person. With this in place, eventually the sickness is unable to proceed because there is nobody left susceptible to it. This prevents massive spread of diseases. Some diseases will only infect 3-5 people, others, like malaria, will infect upwards of 80 people.
The truth is that the more people in a community that are vaccinated, the more protection there is for those who are unable or unwilling to become vaccinated. People who have a decreased immune response, like those fighting cancer, will have zero immunity to these diseases, and they rely entirely on the herd immunity to keep these diseases away from them.
While the entire community might not be vaccinated, each child only needs to rely on two degrees of separation, the people they are in contact with (such as other student and teachers at school) and those that THEY contact (such as the families of other kids)… meaning that as long as the vast majority of the community is vaccinated, they are safe.
Oh, and I just read the article from the “Entropy” that Kat posted. The article itself states that what they found was an increase in complications with autistic children… meaning that they found an immunological difference between normal children and autistic children. There was no actual proof of autism being caused by the vaccinations… only that the vaccinations can react differently with autistic children.
While I believe that vaccinations are valuable, I must point out that the reasoning which the author considers “simple and logical” is actually logical fallacy: post hoc ergo propter hoc. None of the correlations cited herein constitute any kind of logical evidence of the efficacy of vaccines in improving public health whatsoever. Furthermore, the author’s smug assertion that she “helped protect” other children is also not valid, as she herself states that “the measles vaccine is about 95% effective.” She cannot possibly know that her child is not among the [unprotected] 5% with the potential of infecting others.
There is much confusion around this issue. Some of the hyperbole and misinformation may indeed be dangerous. However, judging other parents with this author’s air of superiority and absence of compassion is certainly as useless as her faulty “logic.”
Sigh .. it’s about population being vaccinated not about efficacy of the vaccine. These are different things. Further more once immunized, if there is an onset of illness, the severity of said illness is decreased.
Wow, are we nitpicky. The child’s chance of being immune to vaccine preventable diseases is excellent. She is doing her part to help protect children from preventable disease. It is a perfectly reasonable statement.
It’s a funny video but it proves nothing. It’s just two guys getting a pay cheque to spout a script written by a group of people with a set agenda.
Um….they are professional comedians…I am pretty sure Natalie knew that. Lighten up, Kat. Not everyone posts “set agendas” and tries to pass them off as fact like you do.
Lighten up Kat…they are professional comedians for goodness sake! Also, not everyone who posts a “set agenda” (or in this case, a comedic sketch which is not supposed to be taken seriously) is trying to pass it off as fact like you do.
Big pharma got to Penn and Teller? Oh noes!!!
It floors me that citing sources isn’t necessary when one takes a pro-vaccine stance, but if this author had chosen to cover the RISKS of vaccination at all, she’d be lambasted for not citing even one source, then upon citing reputable sources or data, would be lambasted some more – to the point of name-calling. So… author… could you please cite your sources? While you’re at it, prove to me that the reason your child hasn’t gotten polio is because you vaccinated him/her. Then, further prove to me that the reason MY child hasn’t contracted polio is because you vaccinated your child. Thanks!
Rather than ask the author to “cite her sources” to your HUGE questions – why don’t YOU do some valid research? By researching, reading, you will learn and hence educate yourself. Asking others to “spoon feed” you information or an education is in itself the most telling thing about your post.
As for your “prove to me” … why should anyone have any interest in proving anything to YOU, you who doesn’t have the energy to educate yourself? Prove it to yourself ….
The author has the entire consensus of experts in vaccination as well as the medical literature to back her up. If you are claiming that vaccines are more dangerous than beneficial, the opposite of the worldwide medical consensus, then you have the extraordinary claim and have the burden of providing evidence.
Out of curiosity, which claim would you most like a source for?
Kat, you said “the fact is, there are 7 billion humans and counting that are outsourcing the natural resources of the earth and subsequently destroying it … we are “breeding” our way into extinction and the entire collapse of the earth’s universal environment … humans”
This statement has absolutely nothing to do with vaccinations — it deals with reproductive choices. If you think there are too many people, are you advocating telling women how many children they can have? Do you have any children? Could you pick the one(s) that would not have been born? I have three, and I would give my life rather than have one of theirs threatened.
As my mother often said when I complained about how many children were in our family, “which one would you have eliminated? You?”
I am a practicing RN with a clinical doctorate, working with pediatric patients. Yes, some have adverse reactions to vaccinations (I am sorry for your friend, Stephanie) but the vast majority experience only temporary discomfort from the shot.
And our author is correct about herd immunity. The herd immunity threshold varies from immunization to immunization, from a high of 92-94 percent for measles and pertussis to 75 percent for mumps. These values vary based on the virulence of the disease, how effective the vaccine is and the contact parameter for the population. This might help explain it: http://www.vaccinestoday.eu/vaccines/what-is-herd-immunity/
The significance of vaccinations in preventing diseases in children cannot be overlooked. A CDC report showed a greatly reduced rate of hospitalization in children under 5 (down 80%) for gastroenteritis after the infant rotavirus vaccination program was introduced in 2006. There was also a significant decline in hospitalization for children ages 5-14 (70%) and the elderly (14%) who are not usually vaccinated against rotavirus. This report demonstrates that herd immunity incurred by the infant rotavirus vaccination program benefits the rest of the population.
The bottom line is that all parents have the freedom to choose whether to vaccinate their children, no matter what the effect on other children is. An unfortunate measles outbreak in Texas that was directly tied to non-vaccination proponents at a church prompted the church to offer vaccination clinics. (http://www.npr.org/2013/09/01/217746942/texas-megachurch-at-center-of-measles-outbreak) I believe in the science behind vaccinations, and I believe that God heals – but I also believe he likely had a hand in directing the discoveries of these life-saving measures. Every one of your arguments have been disproved; yet you are still well within your rights to withhold vaccinations from your children. I am thankful mine have all been vaccinated, but I still wouldn’t want them playing with yours. Mine are helping in the herd immunity that may actually help yours stay healthy.
No, the reason 57,628 cases of polio in the U.S. in ’52 shrunk to 5,300 in ’57 is because in ’55, the year after the vaccine was introduced, the CDC radically changed the definition and labeling protocol for the disease, automatically eliminating – not eradicating – upwards of 90% of the cases that would thenceforth be diagnosed. They even had the hubris to almost double the number of cases required in an outbreak to be labeled an epidemic – a change that, when you think about it, makes absolutely no sense, other than to somehow create the illusion that the disease was less threatening, or less prevalent. If you do due diligence, you’ll discover what happened to the remaining 10% of cases over the succeeding couple of decades, as well. The linked document below chronicles the mechanics of the manipulations, and though many of you will consider the website that houses the article anti-vax, don’t let it throw ya – the links provided as evidence are to a transcript of a panel held by the Illinois Medical Society to address the problems with the polio vaccination campaign, on which sat three PhD statisticians and an MD; and several CDC webpages.
The iron lung, by the way, went the way of the steam engine years ago. What is now used instead is the positive pressure ventilator, a much smaller, portable device, much in use today.
Research. Inform yourself, outside the mainstream box, which, once you’ve educated, you’ll realize is kept tightly shut, to disallow a mountain of information critical to every parent’s vaccine decisions.
Shawn, where are all those children on crutches and in braces and on ventilators, if polio is still affecting as many as it was before the vaccine? In what closet are you hiding them, because they certainly aren’t around in public? If all that changed was the name of the disease, where are the effects of that disease?
Not exactly a scientific source for your claims, Sean. And it has at least one fundamental flaw. Both paralytic and nonparalytic cases of polio were being reported when the vaccine came out. Though there was a tightening of the definition to be more in line with the Salk polio trials, meaning that a fraction of paralytic cases would now be classified as nonparalytic, BOTH paralytic and nonparalytic cases dropped because of the vaccine.
We all suck. Your arguments suck. My argument right now sucks. We should all probably just be appreciating what we have.
My understanding is Dr. Wakefield did not advocate against vaccinating children, he advocated using the individual vaccines for Measles, Mumps, and Rubella vs. the using combined MMR. This guy was crucified because others did not take the time to look at what he was really suggesting and instead only heard “don’t vaccinate!”
The risk of the MMR is quietly being confirmed today (and I mean as of August 2013) in Vaccination Courts in the US and Europe – mostly finding the combined MMR can cause encephalitis which can lead to many life altering diagnoses, bowel disease and Autism just being two of them. These side effects are rare, but they exist.
Since the individual vaccines were taken off of the market and are no longer available, parents like me who are actually pro-vaccination have to make a choice between risking the combined MMR or risking no protection from measles/mumps/rubella.
Mr. Wakefield did not actually advocate against vaccinating children. You’re right in that. He did advocate splitting up the MMR and using single vaccines, including the one he applied for a patent on. He also made it very clear that, according to him, the MMR created a risk of autism, even though his own case series didn’t show that. He’s still making that very clear, even though there is no evidence of any causal connection. The vaccination compensation program (Vaccination Court) has never ruled that any vaccine caused autism, and in fact, ruled just the opposite in all three of the representative cases from the autism omnibus cases. One ruling in one obscure Italian court means literally nothing in the way of science, and in fact that ruling is being appealed.
The basic fact is, Wakefield’s research findings have never, not once, ever been replicated, and he didn’t even make the effort to do so when the Royal Free Hospital offered him facilities and funding for a much larger study. He simply never followed up his own work. One has to wonder why he would reject what is every researcher’s dream.
Thank you for a calm leveled response. I’m saddened by all the hate I’m reading on this site from both sides. Just to clarify, as I tried to state above but apparently not so clearly, the MMR is not scientifically linked to Autisim – it can be linked to encephalitis which can in turn bring subsequent diagnoses due to the brain injury that causes. Again, rare, but it does happen. My point is, there are two sides to this story and as parents we have to evaluate the information we can find and make the best decision possible for our individual children. I am generally pro-vaccine, but I can also understand where the other parents are coming from.
Here is a list of names of those cases I was able to find that were given court awards for brain injury due to the MMR. US and abroad. In the broad sense, it is a small list of people compared to the millions that receive the vaccine.
KS, i the now-withdrawn article, Wakefield was careful not to advocate against vaccination. However, in the press conference announcing the article, and in the many years subsequent, Wakefield did in fact say that he would not vaccinate.
He was aided and abetted in the fear-mongering by the UK press.
“The risk of the MMR is quietly being confirmed today (and I mean as of August 2013) in Vaccination Courts in the US and Europe”
I believe you have been mislead by anti-vaccination websites and list-serves.
1. Courts do not decide matters of science. The courts you are mentioning (Italian only, as far as I know) adjudicated a monetary settlement.
2. “combined MMR can cause encephalitis which can lead to many life altering diagnoses, bowel disease and Autism just being two of them.” Mistaken again. Yes, the brain inflammation encephalitis may be caused by MMR, but at a very, very rare rate.
“In this study of more than 2 million children,… MMR vaccines were not associated with an increased risk of encephalopathy after vaccination.” Data are likewise lacking for an association between MMR and bowel disease, and MMR and autism.
Liz Ditz wrote:
“I believe you have been mislead by anti-vaccination websites and list-serves. Courts do not decide matters of science. The courts you are mentioning (Italian only, as far as I know) adjudicated a monetary settlement.”
You are correct that courts do not decide matters of science but they do evaluate events and the facts leading up to those events, and in the cases below they decided the facts said the MMR caused brain injury for the following children:
Ryan Mojabi, Emily Moller, Hannah Poling, Bailey Banks, Misty Hyatt, Kienan Freeman, Valentino Bocca, Julia Grimes
“combined MMR can cause encephalitis which can lead to many life altering diagnoses, bowel disease and Autism just being two of them.”
Liz Ditz wrote:
Mistaken again. Yes, the brain inflammation encephalitis may be caused by MMR, but at a very, very rare rate.
Just because MMR brain inflammation encephalitis happens at a “very, very rare rate” does not mean I am wrong and it does not happen — it just means it happens very rarely. I was not arguing the rate at which it happens. Regardless of an individual’s choice to vaccinate or otherwise, it is foolish to ignore the risks of either choice.
You know what else causes encephalitis? The measles virus. At about 1000 times greater a rate that the MMR vaccine does. Why would someone want to increase their risk of such a condition?
I see that this is a hot topic. I have vaccinated my child because I had to in order for him to attend school and I was told I had to and I did not questioned it, as it made sense to protect my child. I however missed most of vaccines and had chicken pox and measles when I was a child without a vaccine and survived and got natural immunity. This wasn’t done intentionally by my parents, we moved and paperwork got lost and I missed timings and then I got sick with measles and pox ( separately). My mother also opted not to have me vaccinated against tb as reactions to that vaccine were very severe and later that vaccine was withdrawn from the market. I opted not to have my child vaccinated against that super flu that had people lining up for whole day and nothing came out of it and I do not regret that decision. I guess, we have to think what is best for our children and I believe in vaccinating against debilitating diseases and do not regret in doing so.
Nothing came of that H1N1 flu pandemic? The families of the thousands of people who died of it might disagree with you.
Yes, you survived chicken pox and measles. So did I. My children survived chicken pox. Not everyone did. The fact that you and I were among the lucky ones does not mean that everyone is that fortunate. Your experience is meaningless, in the face of statistical fact.
Sadly those that got the seasonal flu shot got the H1N1 flu more severely then those that were unvaccinated. There have been a few studies on this and the same thing occurred.
“I however missed most of vaccines and had chicken pox and measles when I was a child without a vaccine and survived and got natural immunity. ”
And others died.
Please read and be informed.
Smoke, Mirrors, and the ‘Disappearance’ Of Polio
I’ll ask you the same question. Where are all those children? Where are all the adults, of all ages, who should be living with disabilities after polio? If the only change was the name of the disease, how do you explain the absence of those affected by it?
You know, antivaxxers don’t usually have the greatest arguments, but when they start going on about polio eradication being a hoax, they look downright silly.
You know, this is a debate that no one will win. Either side. Those that choose not to vaccinate have their beliefs, and those that choose to have theirs. Personally I believe we over vaccinate, use too many drugs at the drop of a hat, causing viruses to mutate and become stronger and more harmful. Quite a lot of our food source is made up of over processed GMOs which can cause harm. Another can of worms. The majority of people lead less than healthy lives. Add all this together and its no wonder so many people in the US are sick. There are many natural ways of combating disease. People who do not vaccinate will never convince people who do, to stop doing it. And people who vaccinate and believe its the “cure all” to disease will never convince people who don’t, to start.
I still think there’s an issue with mixing talk about well researched, well tested vaccines and vaccines with very little testing and safety studies..(Gardasil anyone?) is dangerous as well. For it both promotes fear of the well tested vaccines, and also promotes carelessness of the less tested vaccines.. The process by which gardasil was approved is appalling at best.
There’s a problem here that many pro vaccinators are not addressing.. Yes, you are right.. Vaccines have indeed eradicated some terrible diseases, but the promotion of what I will call less useful vaccines that come with safety concerns is a tremendous issue because it is hurting the credibility of the practice period.
Gardasil actually had a couple decades of research and safety studies. How much more were you hoping for? In addition, studies since its release have shown it to be very safe.
“I still think there’s an issue with mixing talk about well researched, well tested vaccines and vaccines with very little testing and safety studies..”
You have no idea how much research it takes to demonstrate safety and efficacy so that a vaccine can be approved for the market. Not to mention the post-consumer surveillance.
Which vaccines are “less useful” in your opinion? I don’t want to assume anything, but as you are talking about Gardasil in your post, I am curious if you mean that one? Protecting against cancer sounds pretty useful to me! I have a hard time coming up with a vaccine being used today that protects against a disease that is fairly benign- the diseases we vaccinate against cause significant morbidity and mortality. I am not trying to be argumentative, I just am trying to understand your point of view.
Wakefield’s actions pale in comparison to Hilary Koprowski who openly to experimenting on disabled children in 1950. He arranged to vaccinate 20 mentally disabled children with polio vaccine in collaboration with the physician in charge of the institution in which they resided, although it is said that his superiors at Lederle were unaware of this step.
Koprowski Tests Polio Vaccine on Children
Researcher Hilary Koprowski at Lederle Laboratories conducted the first human trial of his attenuated oral poliovirus vaccine at a New York State facility for intellectually disabled children and children with epilepsy. He tested his Type II vaccine, developed with co-researcher Herald R. Cox (1907-1986), on 20 children and demonstrated that none of them became ill with polio and all of them developed Type II polio virus antibodies.
At the time, Koprowski’s methods generated considerable controversy among others who were working on experimental vaccines. Many thought that the move to testing a live vaccine in human subjects was premature, and some objected to testing the vaccine on institutionalized children, though the practice was frequent in this era.”
verification link: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/timelines/diseases-and-vaccines#EVT_100317
Koprowski did not consider his actions unethical. As a consequence though, Koprowski could not conduct further studies in the United States.
Pharmaceutical companies were offering huge rewards for a successful polio vaccine so Koprowski was considerably motivated. He went to the former Belgian Congo to continue his studies unfettered by ethics and laws. The first Koprowski strains were tested extensively in the former Belgian Congo, his native Poland, and elsewhere.
The largest human testing of the Koprowski strain was conducted in Leopoldville of the Belgian Congo where human rights for the Congolese was practically non-existent. Parents were unable to hide their children from Koprowski’s human field trials and Congolese children were forcibly subjected to his experimental polio vaccine.
One year later, the first human case of HIV in the world was diagnosed. Today, Leopoldville is considered by many in the world of scientific medicine to be the epicenter of HIV.
Hi, I am not a medical expert. I have done some research because I do have the experience of being a mom with a normal, talking child who after receiving her MMR vaccine lost her ability to communicate and could not even pick up her pacifier when she dropped it. She is now highly functioning and no she did not exhibit any signs prior to her vaccination. I have met other families with similar experiences and I do believe the vaccine was to blame. My question to all of the puffed chests out there is this. I lived with a mother who survived polio, she spent her life in a wheelchair suffering post polio syndrome and she fully supported a vaccine. When I was researching for someone else I found a reference to the polio vaccine being harvested in animal kidneys and this was linked to the increase in cancer. Did we solve one huge problem (polio) and in turn facilitate the increase in another (cancer). I appreciate your interest in vaccine but please keep your comments considerate to each other. Mud slinging helps no one. The worst slingers hide behind anonymous! Thank you.
Terrible article. Author doesn’t even mention any death or problems CA– USED by vaccines. H1N1 vaccines? any problems there? I think so lol. Also, why has autism, aspergers, and all kinds of developmental disabilities sky rocketed? Stop bullying the public into thinking they need to get vaccines, it is a family decision. Frankly, all the people I know that don’t vaccinate are the healthiest people I know. Hospitals are the worst, if you refused certain vaccines for your newborn, they then get social services in there, and in a lot of cases try to take your baby. What a terrible system. Don’t trust the government knows “what’s best” for your kids or yourself. They have been caught in too many lies and scandals to be trusted with what goes into our body. Educate yourself people, do real research. Ask the questions you want to ask, don’t be satisfied until you get the answers you are looking for.
This author is part of a bigger evil agenda.
Take a peek at how often they have changed the guidelines of what is considered Autism. Please. Take a look at how often they change it. It changes more often than a teenaged girl changes her outfit for her first date.
“H1N1 vaccines? any problems there? I think so lol.”
Not particularly. Lots of manufactured controversy, though.
“Hospitals are the worst, if you refused certain vaccines for your newborn, they then get social services in there, and in a lot of cases try to take your baby.”
Yeah, no, they don’t. Maybe in rare situations where there are other reasons why they are concerned about a newborn’s safety.
“Frankly, all the people I know that don’t vaccinate are the healthiest people I know.”
Frankly, my dear, you have observer bias.
I certainly appreciate your perspective on this as it’s a topic near and dear to many of us moms. I, myself, haven’t researched it enough to form a fully educated opinion one way or the other but I am cautious and listen to facts from both sides. However,, I believe what some of the other commenters were hitting on were things that can impact credibility. For example, you said you don’t support “people using fear mongering to try and defend those choices” and if you “have to resort to those kinds of tactics that you have probably made a questionable decision.” And yet, the very next sentence threatens that when vaccination rates fall “children get sick and/or die” and I don’t know anything more fearful than that! It comes off as though you’re using the exact same tactics you condemn. The trouble with researching any topic is you never know the agenda of the researcher. Wakefield’s research may have been debunked but who debunked it and who issues their paycheck? What was Wakefield’s agenda, for that matter? This can be argued for both sides of the debate so the best we can do is keep doing our own research and make what each of us believes is the best decision for our own kids and families.
That vaccination prevents disease, and failure to vaccinate allows for disease, should be self-evidently true. Just because the facts are scary doesn’t mean the author is abusing them to promote fear.
Your questions about Wakefield are easily answered with a quick trip to Wikipedia. Pay special attention to the stuff about the ethics board, the money he was getting from lawyers interested in MMR lawsuits, and the kits he was working to sell to diagnose his fabricated syndrome.
It’s really funny that these are written in the same blog post:
“But I do not support people using fear mongering to try and defend those choices. I believe that if you have to resort to those kinds of tactics that you have probably made a questionable decision.”
“Now I’d like to show you some “worst case scenario” pictures of the measles but that would involve dead and blind children and, well, you can just conjure up those images yourself.”
Not sure those two jive…
Bang on! Hipocrisy at work…
Your post is just as stupid as Jenny McCarthy going on talk shows. You know nothing about the MMR vacine and why measles are on the rise (and let me tell you it has nothing to do with parents choosing to wait or skip) It has everything to do with a society that has to push it’s children into mass day care because we have not seen a rise in real wages in decades pushing both parents into full-time work just to stay ahead. It has everything to do with the high levels of illegal immigrants coming into this country who have no access to affordable health care (look at where the outbreaks happen.) It also has everything to do with a pharmaceutical industry that is constantly changing the formulas of their so called “wonder vaccines” inorder to put in ingredients that are less effective but save them money on the bottom line. Have you even read the trials on these vaccines you love so much? You know nothing so stop posting on your lame mommy blog like you do know something. Get a clue. Your just as bad as Jenny Macrty, and if you think she has something to do with a spike, you need to take a econ 101 class.
No excuse me while I go fill up my gas tank with leaded gasoline, wrap my pipes in asbestos and smoke those once claimed healthy cigarettes because the Surgen Genreal, CDC and FDA, have never let me down, including their claims about all the alumni and formaldehyde in todays vaccines (ingredients that were not used as widespread in the 1950’s or 60’s.)….
Also, the Hep A and Rotavirus vacines are a joke and should have never passed their trials!
If any of your explanation is true, why is it that outbreaks start with unvaccinated people, often returning from overseas, and that the vast majority of those affected are unvaccinated?
Large numbers of unvaccinated immigrants? In the middle of Utah and Indiana? Yes, take a look at where the outbreaks are happening. Do that.
Immunization and immigrants, illegal and otherwise. As it turns out, you are incorrect. Vaccine uptake is very, very high in Mexico, for example, because of the state’s support for vaccination as a health-care measure.
The 2011 Utah measles outbreak was caused by an unvaccinated teen who visited Europe and brought back a measles infection as a souvenir, infecting five others.
Of the 159 cases reported in the first half of 2013, 99% were related to unvaccinated US travelers acquiring the infection overseas and bringing it back to spread it in the US
You’re an Iditiot wrote,
“It also has everything to do with a pharmaceutical industry that is constantly changing the formulas of their so called “wonder vaccines””
[Citation needed] — as in proof.
As far as I am aware, the last vaccine formulation change was from the whole-cell pertussis vaccine to an acellular format. The reasons for that had nothing to do with the profit motive, but was caused by the high rates of vaccine side effects.
“their claims about all the alumni ” As far as I know, ground-up high school and college graduates (“alumni”) are never used in manufacturing vaccines.
Here here! I tip my hat to you Liz! And by the way, the alumni joke, hilarious! You brightened my day!
I have to say, when I was pregnant with my eldest, I wasn’t against vaccines. I am not an anti-vaccinator who gets up on a soapbox and tells people not to vaccinate their kids. And frankly, most people probably don’t even realize our situation. I had every intention of vaccinating my children, and for most people I believe it’s probably the right choice. BUT, I have to say, it’s not for everyone.
When my eldest was born, she was a preemie, just under 3 lbs, and too small to be vaccinated, so there wasn’t a decision to be made at the time. Once she was big enough to come home from the hospital, 4 weeks after she was born, but still only 4 lbs, we made the decision, ALONG WITH her pediatrician, that it was best to let her grow and her immune system develop on it’s own without bombarding it with vaccines (and dead illnesses). Sometime between her release from the NICU and when she was 9 months old, something went genetically haywire. We didn’t see the full effects until she was 2, but her cell counts were always abnormal, which is why we continued to hold off on her vaccinations. Right after her 2nd birthday, and 8 weeks after my 2nd child was born, she became very ill and was then diagnosed with a very rare blood disorder. Had she been vaccinated during that time, it would have killed her. Nobody knows what caused the genetic mutation (it’s a precancerous condition that usually occurs in geriatric patients), or if my other 2 children will ever get it. The medication she now has to take to keep it in check prevents her from being vaccinated, BUT because we don’t know what caused her illness, we would NEVER take the chance with our other 2 kids lives either. So, for you to say that you are willing to risk the side effect of DEATH for your child is easy to say since I assume you can’t dream of it being a possibility. Unfortunately, I could see it as a possibility, and it’s not a risk we are willing to take with our children.
Thank you for this post….my adopted baby, born at 4 lbs, 41/2 weeks early, had a seizure after shots. I never felt strongly about rushing vaccines because she was so tiny, but because she “belonged” to the state I was forced into it. I wanted to wait until she was at least 6 months old, so that her blood brain barrier was developed. The state made me start her vaccines at 4 months or they could take her away from me. As my tiny little enfant lay in my lap and had a full blown seizure (the evening after the DTP), I was scared to death. When I took her into the pediatrician, he said that it was probably her “nervous system kicking in”!!! This man is now head of the pediatrics in one of our hospitals. I think you can only understand how scary it is if you have been in this situation. I wonder if any of these people who post how horrible we “anti-vaccine” people are would still feel the same way if it were their child….
Just a few questions. How do you trust anyone that says Fluoride is okay to use? How do you trust anyone that allows or allowed mercury to be used in vaccines and dental work? If you think vaccines are good then I think you’re drinking the Fluoridated water that is being put into the drinking water of about 80% of the cities across America. You also probably have dental work with mercury or had a vaccine with mercury in it. Sodium Fluoride is used in rat poison to kill rats. Hitler also put into the drinking water of the Jews to control the Jews. Mercury in any form is toxic and can be very deadly, and it has 0 health benefits when put into a vaccine, so why do it? If you take less then a drop of mercury and put in into someone yard it would be a crime.
In 1960, it was determined that the rhesus monkey kidney cells used to prepare the poliovirus vaccines were infected with the SV40 virus (Simian Virus-40). SV40 was also discovered in 1960 and is a naturally occurring virus that infects monkeys. In 1961, SV40 was found to cause tumors in rodents. More recently, the virus was found in certain forms of cancer in humans, for instance brain and bone tumors, pleural and peritoneal mesothelioma, and some types of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. However, it has not been determined that SV40 causes these cancers.
SV40 was found to be present in stocks of the injected form of the polio vaccine (IPV) in use between 1955 to 1963. It is not found in the OPV form. Over 98 million Americans received one or more doses of polio vaccine between 1955 to 1963 when a proportion of vaccine was contaminated with SV40; it has been estimated that 10–30 million Americans may have received a dose of vaccine contaminated with SV40. Later analysis suggested that vaccines produced by the former Soviet bloc countries until 1980, and used in the USSR, China, Japan, and several African countries, may have been contaminated; meaning hundreds of millions more may have been exposed to SV40.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/simian-virus-40-dna-found-in-us-children.aspx Research all of this! Bill Gates said something along the line of controlling the population “if we do a really great with vaccines and healthcare reproductive services”: well just watch the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3WXcRfsrTQ
What Bill Gates said was that if we do a good job with vaccines and healthcare, and reproductive services, we can possibly slow the growth of the world’s population by 10 to 15 percent. What he meant by that, as he has clearly explained, is that when parents have an expectation that their children will live to grow up, they tend to decide to have fewer children. When women then have the choice of how many children to have, if their children are expected to live, they usually choose to have fewer children. Do you have a problem with giving women that choice? Is there something that bothers you about parents not having to plan for the deaths of their children?
Bill Gates has also explained that they discovered this fact by working with women and families, by listening to the women’s concerns and needs. They had thought it would be enough to provide contraceptive choices to women who didn’t have them, but women don’t like to limit the number of their children unless they can be fairly certain that smaller number will survive.
It really isn’t that hard to understand, unless, of course, you would just rather not.
As for SV40, it hasn’t been an issue in any vaccine for some fifty years, and the age cohort of people who would have gotten the contaminated vaccine show no higher rates of cancer than others. It’s been intensively studied and it’s not really a problem.
Sorry to be such a Blunt!!!
I hate articles like this. While the author is entitled to their opinion, there are no adequate references, and no presentation of the opposing view. I will attempt to present evidence supporting the opposing view with legitimate references and no fear mongering (for either side). This is a long post, I hope people will take the time to read and review the references (which are the actual source documents instead of websites citing websites which may or may not lead to the actual source document(s)).
Vaccines have a scientific basis and should be studied.
Studies showing that vaccines have largely eradicated diseases are epidemiological based and usually observational, and only prove a correlation (vice causation) in eradicating diseases. As previous posters have shown, the diseases were in a significant decline before said vaccines were introduced (see the following link (ppt slide) for a discussion of the pros and cons of epidemiological studies: http://bit.ly/1gsAqMp).
Risk factors for vaccinating are not adequately disclosed. There were so many claims that the federal government established an injury compensation program: “On October 1, 1988, the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (Public Law 99-660) created the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). The VICP was established to ensure an adequate supply of vaccines, stabilize vaccine costs, and establish and maintain an accessible and efficient forum for individuals found to be injured by certain vaccines. The VICP is a no-fault alternative to the traditional tort system for resolving vaccine injury claims that provides compensation to people found to be injured by certain vaccines.” (http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html).
This act made it mandatory to use the VICP for most vaccine injuries. Since the first National Vaccine Injury Compensation (VICP) claims were filed in 1989, 3,369 compensation awards have been made. Over $2.6 billion in compensation awards have been paid to petitioners, and over $104.2 million have been paid to cover attorneys’ fees and other legal costs (http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data.html).
Additionally, all filings are protected against public disclosure, making independent scientific review of actual injury or death cases virtually impossible, and inhibits any legitimate research trying to find actual causes of injury. “Section VIII. PRIVACY 26. Filings Protected Against Public Disclosure. Except as provided in Vaccine Rule 18, all ECF filings submitted in a Vaccine Act case are placed under seal pursuant to the requirement of 42 U.S.C. § 300aa-12(d)(4)(A) and therefore are accessible only to court personnel and counsel of record (page 147 Section VIII of Appendix B Vaccine rules of the United States Court Of Federal Claims; http://1.usa.gov/16SYTZZ).
Toxic ingredients are a major issue in vaccines. If you would like to see a comparison of what ingredients your child is getting compared to established EPA known toxicity levels based on body weight (including the ability to select vaccine manufactures – you will be surprised at what ingredients you find, and how many ingredients you find that have no established safety limits because they have not been studied). The disclaimer on the website says that all data for ingredients come from the manufacture inserts and they can’t be held liable for what the manufacture publishes. http://www.vaccine-tlc.org/calc.html#calc
Another good resource and very well balanced presentation of the whole vaccine issue can be found in the documentary “The Greater Good”. The documentary also references the fact that bench trials have not been done for a lot of the ingredients. (http://www.greatergoodmovie.org/)
Dr. Wakefield: The commonly held view that his research paper proved (weather the study is fraudulent or not is a separate issue) a link between the MMR vaccine and autism is not founded, and I believe it is largely a smear campaign against Dr. Wakefield. I am not a doctor but, I can read. In his original paper (posted on the journalist Brian Deer’s webpage http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-paper.pdf) he and the other doctors that authored the study explicitly claim in the originally published paper that they did not prove an association between the vaccine and autism, and further studying was needed. “We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue. If there is a causal link between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and this syndrome, a rising incidence might be anticipated after the introduction of this vaccine in the UK in 1988. Published evidence is inadequate to show whether there is a change in incidence (22) or a link with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine” (this quote is from the last page of the .pdf file or page 641 as seen in the document).
Disclosure: I have two children 6 and 2 years old. The first child received every vaccine until she was about 3.5 years old. She has eczema and a bad nut allergy, and was/still is on the bottom 10% of the growth chart for the age and sex (at times she did not register on the chart). The second child received no vaccines and has no known medical conditions, and is always above the 60%-80% range on the growth chart for age and sex. All other conditions were relatively equal (both were breast fed, diets were healthy etc…). My view is vaccines and their toxic ingredients definitely contributed to the first child’s conditions, and had we kept vaccinating probably would have become worse or developed new conditions.
“Studies … only prove a correlation (vice causation) … the diseases were in a significant decline before said vaccines”
Except that this is wrong. I’m usually the first to point out that correlation is not causation, but in the case of vaccination, we actually have excellent control data in the form of other countries that adopted widespread vaccination programs at different times. If you want to get picky about language, you could say we have excellent data demonstrating a correlation between lower incidence of disease with areas that have widespread vaccination. Causation? You be the judge! (Hint: Yes.)
“Risk factors for vaccinating are not adequately disclosed”
Well, “adequately” is a purely subjective term, right? I find that they’re adequately discussed. Do you find that the risks of a blood draw are adequately discussed? Do you think the risks of receiving a vaccine are higher than the risks of getting a blood draw?
“There were so many claims that the federal government established an injury compensation program”.
Yes, but do not confuse “so many claims” with “so many problems with the vaccines”.
“The VICP is a no-fault alternative to the traditional tort system”
This is the key part here. Our system of civil justice allows for one party to receive compensation for harm caused by the other party. If the harm is well-known and understood to occur in, say, 1% of the cases, you end up with (a) some set of people that understand that this is something that “just happens”, they adapt, and get on with their lives, and (b) another set that says “OMG, I was harmed by you, I deserve compensation”. The latter group goes to court, tells a sob story, and happens to get a jury that wants to “send a message” about this obviously dangerous thing, resulting in unpredictable outcomes and generally making it hard to offer a product that has a net benefit to society at the unavoidable expense of a random 1%. This is where “no-fault” compensation systems are useful: where we accept that there are bad outcomes through no reasonable fault of the provider of the service. The unfortunate 1% may still deserve compensation, but the system now comes with an implied understanding of the situation, uniform criteria for compensating victims, and no juries to add unpredictability or allow lawyers to manufacture personal outrage to bump up dollar amounts. This is a good thing, and to be honest it could stand to be expanded to other aspects of medical tort, where emotions run high and bad outcomes are occasionally expected.
“Additionally, all filings are protected against public disclosure”
Because the public is panicky and otherwise incapable of making rational decisions when it comes to this type of data. Look what came out of the Wakefield study, which you correctly point out wasn’t actually about “proving” a causal relationship between vaccination and autism. Many, many people interpret “possible link that deserves more study” as “cause”. And now you want to give them access to raw statistics on adverse effects? Less opportunity for panic, please.
“Toxic ingredients are a major issue in vaccines”
No they’re not, though DHMO is a big issue that isn’t getting a lot of attention. http://www.dhmo.org
“all data for ingredients come from the manufacture inserts and they can’t be held liable”
This is a consequence of the legal system in the US and has nothing to do with vaccines, their ingredients or the topic at hand.
“bench trials have not been done for a lot of the ingredients”
Do you know why? Or are you just assuming Big Vaccine is trying to sneak “chemicals” into your body without proper safety studies? Why does the FDA let them do this? Must be corruption and a conspiracy, right?
“originally published paper that they did not prove an association between the vaccine”
The problem is that the general public does not understand what this means. All they hear is “vaccines cause autism”. Also, Wakefield distorted his research so as to *fabricate* this association, all the while receiving payment from lawyers that were keenly interested in starting lawsuits against makers of MMR vaccines, and simultaneously trying to start a business venture selling kits to test whether your child has the (fabricated) syndrome that causes autism!
“My view is vaccines and their toxic ingredients definitely contributed to the first child’s conditions”
It’s easy to jump to conclusions like this, but keep in mind you have exactly two data points. Studies with far more data points than this have not observed the connections you’ve made. But they’re your children, right? It’s easy to be irrationally protective, and I can’t judge anyone for doing that with someone they love. But be honest with yourself and others and call it what it is.
It is nice have a civil response.
So far no study has adequately been able to separate how vastly improved sanitation and living conditions contributed to the fall in diseases versus vaccines. I disagree with your conclusion that in this case correlation equals causation.
“Well, “adequately” is a purely subjective term, right? I find that they’re adequately discussed. Do you find that the risks of a blood draw are adequately discussed? Do you think the risks of receiving a vaccine are higher than the risks of getting a blood draw?”
I should re-word this statement. Risks are not clearly articulated. Reality is when a vast majority of people who come into contact with said vaccine preventable disease, they are generally fine. How many people who contract the flu actually die every year? How many people who get measles actually die?
“Many, many people interpret “possible link that deserves more study” as “cause”. And now you want to give them access to raw statistics on adverse effects? Less opportunity for panic, please.”
A court decided that vaccines resulted in an injury. With holding data that could lead doctors to improve a vaccine and/or reduce injuries, and inform parents that their perceptions on vaccination may or may not be accurate is unethical (at best) and an ignorant, ill thought out position to have.
The medical community should be able to articulate with a reasonable degree of certainty the following when discussing vaccines with parents: If I give my kid said vaccine he has approximately XX% chance of being injured, compared to having a XX% chance of becoming seriously disabled/maimed/dying as a result of not vaccinating, and I have a XX% chance of still contracting the disease even if I have the vaccine.
Vaccination does not equal immunization. Effects of this can be seen in news reports of diseases beginning to spread again among populations that are over 90-95% vaccinated for said disease.
“No they’re not, though DHMO is a big issue that isn’t getting a lot of attention. http://www.dhmo.org”
Interesting website on DHMO. Using your logic, I am not concerned about DHMO because both the CDC and the U.S. Government do not classify it as toxic so obviously it is not a problem for most. Other issues need more attention.
I don’t understand how you can dismiss non-defined toxicity limits, for chemicals that require a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) as a risk factor in the decision to vaccinate. To top it off the industry won’t disclose what they do to the aluminum because it is a trade secret (http://www.vaccine-tlc.org/aluminum.html). You can cause major problems by overdosing on iron. It generally does not happen because we have a good idea on what the limits are. No one has done the same for aluminum, and we have no idea what problems that is causing.
Also please reference the safety study showing that mercury was still an acceptable ingredient even though most doses given to children vastly exceed know toxicity limits (yes mercury is still in vaccines given to infants). http://www.vaccine-tlc.org/qv/dtap.html
If this debate were happening in the 1950’s discussing the safety of cigarettes, I would envision you on the side advocating that cigarettes cause no harm, and were perfectly safe for a majority of the population.
“Do you know why? Or are you just assuming Big Vaccine is trying to sneak “chemicals” into your body without proper safety studies? Why does the FDA let them do this? Must be corruption and a conspiracy, right?”
I believe it is a combination of big vaccine wanting to cut the costs, government incompetence and the revolving door you find where multiple top level executive rotate between government positions and big corporations (this is found in defense, banking, food, medical and others). There is a level of conspiracy involved but how wide spread, and what the objective is I have no idea. Conspiracy is defined as: “a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful” (this happens everyday around the world).
“So far no study has adequately been able to separate how vastly improved sanitation and living conditions contributed to the fall in diseases versus vaccines.”
Yet, hundreds of controlled trials prove that vaccinated people get each disease far less than the unvaccinated, and national disease rates fell only after widespread vaccination, virtually every time. So… sorry, what is your point?
“Risks are not clearly articulated. Reality is when a vast majority of people who come into contact with said vaccine preventable disease, they are generally fine. How many people who contract the flu actually die every year?
Anywhere between 3000 and 50,000 depending on the year.
“How many people who get measles actually die?”
In the US, about one per 1000. This is in no way comparable to the vaccine, where a single verifiable death from the vaccines is hard to come by.
“Vaccination does not equal immunization. Effects of this can be seen in news reports of diseases beginning to spread again among populations that are over 90-95% vaccinated for said disease.”
Rarely. But I agree, getting an vaccination does not guarantee immunity. However, immunity is the most likely outcome. Parsing language does not particularly strengthen your argument.
“I am not concerned about DHMO because both the CDC and the U.S. Government do not classify it as toxic so obviously it is not a problem for most.”
Perhaps you have missed the CDC warnings about water intoxication.
“Also please reference the safety study showing that mercury was still an acceptable ingredient even though most doses given to children vastly exceed know toxicity limits (yes mercury is still in vaccines given to infants).”
Thimerosal is only in a few influenza vaccines. Your link apparently hasn’t been updated since Tripedia went off the market in 2011. Here are a number of studies demonstrating safety of thimerosal in vaccines. .
“If this debate were happening in the 1950’s discussing the safety of cigarettes, I would envision you on the side advocating that cigarettes cause no harm, and were perfectly safe for a majority of the population.”
Funny, because the science showed then that cigarrettes cause cancer, and the science shows now that vaccines are safe and effective, so I would envision you on that side – against the science.
“Conspiracy is defined as: “a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful” (this happens everyday around the world).”
Indeed. But in terms of the vaccine debate we are talking about a plan between pharamaceutical companies and the government to do something harmful, knowing that they are doing so. You really think this is a tenable position? That they could cover up significant dangers in vaccines with no one blowing the whistle? I hate to break it to you, but neither industry nor the government have proven themselves to be great secret keepers.
“Yet, hundreds of controlled trials prove that vaccinated people get each disease far less than the unvaccinated, and national disease rates fell only after widespread vaccination, virtually every time. So… sorry, what is your point?”
Sorry, but most diseases were already on the “downswing” BEFORE the vaccines were created for them.
“Sorry, but most diseases were already on the “downswing” BEFORE the vaccines were created for them.”
No, they were not. Deaths from some vaccine preventable diseases were on the decline, but for the most part, the diseases themselves were not. Measles infected nearly everyone in childhood until the vaccine came out, for example.
With polio, both the disease and deaths were on the rise before the vaccine came out.
Please read a book. Or maybe the package inserts for the vaccines. The polio vaccine insert actually states that the number of cases was reduced to 0.5 before the vaccine was ever created. I posted it above and don’t have the time or energy to do so again. But in conclusion, the instances of polio disease were declining long before the vaccine.
Lilly, it’s a little ironic that you’re telling COVRAC, a pediatrician well versed in the science surrounding vacines, to read a book. As he pointed out, you’re wrong. There were high numbers of polio caes up to 1954. I also posted the link already, but am willing to redo so: http://jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=209448
Lily the link showed the decrease after the IPV and before the OPV. You even quoted it. So yes, the vaccine caused a big decline in cases.
Yep, as I pointed out above, the quote is clearly referring to the injectable vaccine dropping polio cases by half before the oral vaccine came out.
Someone needs to read their package inserts, indeed.
“But I do not support people using fear mongering to try and defend those choices. I believe that if you have to resort to those kinds of tactics that you have probably made a questionable decision.” If it weren’t for fear mongering, people wouldn’t believe in the power of vaccines…. Just saying. Your whole reason for vaccinating is supported by fear mongering.
You don’t condone using fear tactis….buuut you’re using fear tactics!?!?
Facts are not fear tactics. Vaccines have been proven to prevent certain diseases, and measles can and does cause blindness and death. What about that, specifically, counts as fear tactics? Or do you just not happen to like the facts?
Yes, I should send you a letter THANKING YOU for allowing and encouraging the spread of disease by allowing and encouraging your children to be walking disease carriers/spreaders via the administration of live vaccines for the following diseases which have been proven to shed and infect others – this is listed on all of the packet inserts for these diseases, so you should know from reading them, but because you felt the need to write an entire article about the subject, I’m sure you are already well aware. (measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox/shingles, rotavirus, the nasal flu spray, and oral polio which is no longer used in the U.S.). Oh, and there is some evidence supporting the theory that the reasons for the whooping cough epidemic is mass vaccination: people who have previously received the vaccine (deemed ineffective by scientists) are getting a less severe form of pertussis (mild cold like symptoms) so they are not taking any precautions around those who may be vulnerable (like staying home, which one likely would if they had full blown pertussis) and are spreading it to the vulnerable population (infants and the elderly). But, this evidence is just now mounting and they are in the process of trying to create a more effective vaccine. So disregard the above pertussis statements if you wish. The fact remains that your vaccinated child can spread all live vaccine viruses to anyone he/she comes into contact with. My unvaccinated child cannot, unless of course he gets the actual virus (most likely from YOUR vaccinated child), in which case I would contain him. Your vaccinated child will shed those diseases for up to 28 days, by the way. So make sure you quarantine him after every live vaccine he receives for about a month. Hey VACCINATORS, YOU’RE WELCOME.
Check out Jenny McCarthy body count. As of this post her nonsense is responsible for 121,000 + cases of preventable illness and 1,289 DEATHS.
No one appears to have noticed (or at least, not commented upon) the vial of vaccine illustrating this post.
It’s the smallpox vaccine.
I have a smallpox vaccine scar, but my daughter does not. Why is that? Routine smallpox vaccine in the US was discontinued in the early 1970s, and recommendations for smallpox vaccination for overseas travellers was discontinued in the early 1980s.
Why is that? Because a global vaccination effort eradicated wild smallpox.
You know, we could eliminated measles as well.
“But I do not support people using fear mongering to try and defend those choices.”
Could you pretty pretty please post another picture of a child with polio? Maybe some dead ones too please. Thank you blunt mom who doesn’t have degrees in science or medicine, but likes to go out on a limb. Your lame article is full of nonsense with no backing. Thanks for the laugh 🙂
Why don’t you post your REAL name Ms. Author? What are you afraid of?
Are you implying that paralytic polio is not genuinely frightening? Showing what polio looks like is realism. Antivaccine fearmongering involves extreme exaggeration.
This article is full of extreme exaggerations with no proven data.
Thanks for the intelligent reply!
Give me an example of extreme exaggeration in the post.
Whatever happened to the idea of educating and encouraging healthy ways to build our immune systems naturally. To bring forth public policy that will help us limit environmental exposures so we can eat cleaner, breath cleaner, and become a healthier society. I know….I know….. “Ain’t nobody got time for that!” So meanwhile, YOU’RE welcome for the social assistance given to the gross amount of people walking around with all sorts of “neurotoxic overload disorders!” Do more research! BTW: regarding your thoughts on the vaccinated being totally immune: here’s a link to recent news of the polio vaccine spreading polio! 2013. http://www.healio.com/infectious-disease/vaccine-preventable-diseases/news/online/%7Bbfc5f12c-3592-4e67-aa93-c46c0a0c6b21%7D/vaccine-derived-polio-complicates-eradication-efforts
“Whatever happened to the idea of educating and encouraging healthy ways to build our immune systems naturally.”
It’s all well and good but it is nothing compared to a vaccine when it comes to preventing polio or meningitis.
“here’s a link to recent news of the polio vaccine spreading polio! 2013.”
Vaccine derived paralytic polio outbreaks rarely occur with the oral vaccine, yet the oral is used in countries where polio is endemic, because it is so much more effective at preventing the spread of wild polio.
Even thought this month is vaccination Awareness month you choose to be so ignorant. If you are going to rant about the horrible reasons I should poison my children then please have the decency to address the facts of dangers of being vaccinated.
Do some research on vaccination injuries before you choose to be so blatantly ignorant to the FULL facts.
Every child harmed by a vaccine is a tragedy, which is why we invest so much in vaccine safety. Fortunately, such cases are very rare, and got rarer over this century as vaccine safety improved. Vaccine risks are certainly much smaller than those of the diseases we vaccinate against: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/D35CD18A3985212ECA2574E2000F9A4F/$File/quick_sideeffects.pdf
National Immunization Awareness Month was in August, Melissa.
“If you are going to rant about the horrible reasons I should poison my children”
NOBODY thinks you should poison your children. Well, except for alt medders who think you should overdose autistic children with vitamins and/or bleach enemas.
“then please have the decency to address the facts of dangers of being vaccinated.”
Here are the facts.
Why don’t we have National Antibiotics Awareness Month? Penicillin is the reason for the dramatic decrease of death from scarlet fever, is it not?
Thank you for saying this, and for saying it so powerfully and eloquently. I don’t want my child to grow up in a world where vaccine preventable diseases are coming back, and I don’t want children left unvaccinated because of their parents’ choice to have to suffer, either. I, too, am glad to offer them protection at the same time that I’m protecting my child by vaccinating him.
You should be more concerned with your child growing up in a world full of cripples, cancer patients, diabetics, asthmatics, autistics, people who suffer from allergies so bad they can barely function, and individuals with seizure disorders, THANK YOU VACCINES!
Actually, vaccines prevent disabilities from polio, measles, mumps etc’, we have two vaccines that prevent cancer – HPV and Hep B, so yes, thank you, vaccines.
Studies examined whether there is a connection between vaccines and autism, diabetes, asthma, allergies, and seizure disorders. None was found.
I understand what you have said here. I am not anti-vaccine. However, I do not agree with the schedule that has been set forth by the medical community for all vaccines. Having watched my nephew regress into severe autism after having received his MMR (no, I do not believe vaccines CA– USE these disorders, but I have seen enough cases personally to question whether or not they are a detriment to a certain group of children), I think it is easy to have these arguments when YOUR child, or a child you love has not fallen victim. I think we need to apply more aggressive studies. When my nephew was diagnosed, 1 in 100 children were expected to be diagnosed on the spectrum. Now, fifteen years later, it is 1 in 75. I even have friends who, after having a child diagnosed with autism, were told BY THEIR PHYSICIAN, to hold off on certain vaccines until their younger children were older. Again, I am not anti-vaccine. My kids are vaccinated, but not according to the prescribed “schedule.” As an educated, thinking adult, I cannot see why my 24-hour-old infant needs to be vaccinated for a disease he can only contract through sex or a dirty needle. My uncle is a physician and my mother has been a nurse for 50 years. AND I have a dear friend who was part of the research team for Autism at UC Davis. Living in extremes on EITHER side isn’t wise, or a good use of our minds. Look at both sides. Read credible sources. It’s easy to have strong opinions until your child is the 1%. I would love to see the CDC revise their schedule on some of these vaccines.
Just a clarification- the hepatitis B vaccine is given shortly after birth because hepatitis B can be transmitted via vertical transmission (by the birthing process if the mother has hep B). And just because she tested negative earlier in pregnancy does not exclude the possibility of her getting it after the testing but before birth. And the earlier someone contracts hepatitis B, the more likely they are to have serious long term consequences- therefore an infant contracting it at birth would be pretty bad.
And out of pure curiosity, how would you revise the schedule, and with what endpoint in mind? Yes, there are adverse effects documented for certain vaccines, but autism is not one of them. If autism is your endpoint, any kind of research directed toward revamping the vaccine schedule would be useless, because it would come up completely inconclusive. What vaccine schedule did you go on for your own children, since it was off schedule? Again, not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to better understand your point of view.
I appreciate your dedication and ferocious tenacity in trying to urge parents to vaccinate their children. I understand that the numbers listed in your statistics are appalling and I fear any recurrence of such vast numbers of people dying from preventable illness and disease. That said, I believe that the problem with vaccinations are that we just don’t know what the long-term effects are. Could it be autism? I doubt it. Autism isn’t new. It wasn’t discovered shortly after vaccines were introduced. However, the implications of putting toxins into your body MAY still have consequences to a child’s health.
At the moment, there are no “absolutes” when it comes to the implications of vaccinating. Without an absolute, definitive answer to the question: “Will this vaccine hurt my child now and also later in his/her life?” we shouldn’t be pointing fingers at people who choose not to do it because we can’t truly say “You’re flat out wrong and here is the science to back it up”. We need to get out of the mentality of accepting something that we have because it is what we have always had and it and considered normal in our society.
Just like I want GMOs to be labelled, I want funding into more scientific research, namely long-term studies to debunk the theory that vaccinations do not harm humans (or animals for that matter). I hope for both but I worry that my hope is just a wasted emotion.
Let’s keep up the fight.
Oooooops I’m tired! I meant to say to debunk the theory that vaccinations harm people!! 🙂
Amazing video on vaccines. A must see. Its a real eye opener.
We have had a very very sick family member in his early 60’s who has just recovered from whooping cough and pneumonia. How did he get this? Read the following right to the end to find out:
Whooping cough is caused by a bacterium, Bordetella pertussis, which is highly contagious and is passed from person to person by direct contact with droplets from the coughing or sneezing of an infected person. The most contagious period is early in the disease when the only symptoms appear to be those of a common cold: runny nose, sneezing, conjunctivitis (pink eye), an occasional cough, and a mild fever. After a week or two, the “cold” enters another stage with symptoms that characterize whooping cough: violent fits of coughing and a gasp for breath in between coughs that sounds like a “whoop.” The coughing is so severe and deep that it often triggers vomiting and can result in broken ribs, seizures and dehydration. Attacks typically occur at night and can leave you exhausted from lack of sleep. In between coughing fits, you seem perfectly okay.
Unfortunately, whooping cough isn’t easy to treat. If it is diagnosed during the first week, the antibiotic erythromycin may lessen the severity and duration of the infection. After that, there’s no good treatment – you just have to let the disease run its course, which typically lasts six to eight weeks. Cough medicines usually don’t help much. Over time, the coughing lessens in frequency and intensity but can linger for months. Household contacts should be immunized and also treated with erythromycin.
The most frequent complication (and the most frequent cause of death) of whooping cough is secondary bacterial pneumonia, which can occur in up to 30-40 percent of patients.
The most likely explanation for the return of whooping cough in recent years is that significant numbers of people stopped immunizing their kids out of concerns over the safety of pertussis vaccine. Today’s newer vaccine is safer than the old one, and there is no reason not to use it. The risks of pertussis are much greater than those of the vaccine. This disease is no joke: in 2010 more than 9,100 people in California caught whooping cough and 10 infants died. The CDC reported that the outbreak was the highest recorded in the state since 1947.
I was vaccinated as a child and I can say that despite the vaccination, I still ended up getting measles and chicken pox.
Many pro-vaccination people have a tendency to use the part-to-whole approach, that if a few people received a vaccination and nothing happened, then it must be okay. Many, many people who have gotten vaccinations, like myself, did not have adequate medical insurance in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. So, many people have not been followed up through their lifetime by a primary care physician. Now as we are in an age of more doctors and moving toward everyone having insurance, you will now start to see more and more of these cases of children with these unusual illnesses.
Subsequently, is possible that in an original formula that vaccinations could work such as performed by Louis Pasteur. But the problem today is the human element and the corporation. In order to get a patent, patent applicants must demonstrate the uniqueness of their invention. SOMETHINGS CANNOT RECEIVE A PATENT, like honey as an example. Patents are intellectual property; like any other property right, it may be sold, licensed, mortgaged, assigned or transferred, given away, or simply abandoned. Therefore, major corporations have the tendency to take something that is simple, like honey, and add many other ingredients to it to receive a patent. With good advertising and marketing, you now have a marketable product. So in returning to my original thought, a vaccine may, in earnest, have properties that can help, but Big Pharma may be adding additional ingredients to make the vaccine formula different so that they can receive a patent. Moreover, patents only last 20 years, so that is another problem. The ingredients in the vaccine may change so that Big Pharma can go forward with a new patent for a new formula. This is where many pro-vaccine people fail. It has always been an illogical assumption that the ingredients in the vaccination have been the same since their first creation. They have not. Therefore, the vaccination can have the small items needed to generate antibodies, but the NEW add on chemicals for patent purposes can be causing all of these other ailments seen in children today.
This article makes me very upset. The reason disease has diminished, is because of increase in knowledge of hygiene. Not the increase of vaccines. I and all of my siblings have never been vaccinated. We have all never had any health problems, but know many children that have, right after getting vaccinations. If your vaccinations work, then why would you make such a big deal about kids that aren’t vaccinated? You’re protected aren’t you? Who is a strong endorser of Vaccines? Bill Gates? He is very much in favor of thinning the population. What better way than to kill children off with vaccines that have the very disease in them that you are trying not to get? Completely daft. No I do not support vaccines at all, and will say a silent “Your Welcome” when my children can grow up with out mental illnesses or diseases.
I’m sorry, but that’s just incorrect. A. Hygiene would do nothing to decrease airborne diseases like measles, whooping cough, etc’. B. The big changes in sanitation were in the 1950s. Yet measles dropped dramatically after the vaccine was introduced and was almost gone until recently, with exemption rates rising; and how do you explain the drop in diseases like HiB, Hep B, chicken pox, for which vaccines were from the 1980s and on? This shows a drop in cases for each disease after vaccines. http://jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=209448
I’m glad you and your unvaccinated siblings had no health problems. Of course, you’re lucky to live in a first world countries with high vaccination rates, and that helps. As the article says, you’re welcome.
“If your vaccinations work, then why would you make such a big deal about kids that aren’t vaccinated? You’re protected aren’t you? ” There are three reasons to worry about your unvaccinated child. First, those too young to vaccinate, like this child, contracting measles as a young baby from an unvaccinated child, who died in agony from a complication. http://justthevax.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/micha-is-dead.html. B. Those with medical conditions that cannot be vaccinated. Like this child, who had a heart transplant at seven months, and cannot get live vaccines. He does not deserve to be infected by an unvaccinated child either. http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/advocating-for-benjamin/. C. Those very few for whom the vaccine fails. To remind you, unvaccinated children are more likely to have the disease and pass it on, and community with low vaccination rates are more likely to have outbreaks (e.g. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/05/29/peds.2012-3449.abstract). So the unvaccinated put everyone at risk.
Here is a meme addressing that: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=410989845687629&set=a.321666164619998.75898.279714615481820&type=1
I think that this is all nonsense. EVERY parent has the responsibility to educate themselves and the right to make their decision for their family. NO ONE has the right to tell a parent what their decision should be. Vaccination awareness and watchdogs are totally necessary, but the sense of judgement that comes from a large vast majority (not all, mind you) of the anti- vaccination community is a hard pill to swallow and automatically disengages people who may be willing to listen.
There is a difference between having the right to make a decision and being free from criticism when you make a choice that leaves your children at risk of dangerous diseases and putting others at risk of them. This blog is not supporting limiting your choice. It does – appropriately and bluntly – call out parents deciding not to vaccinate, pointing out that choice is based on misinformation and is more risky than the choice to vaccinate.
You don’t have the right to be free of criticism when you make such a bad choice. Especially when that choice puts others at risk. And when anti-vaccination people promote this bad choice to others, they should be called out. It’s time the majority that vaccinates stopped leaving the stage to the vocal minority that opposes vaccines.
Maybe you are making the wrong decision. Maybe you are putting society at risk of a neurological epidemic.
Luckily, the question of whether vaccines cause widespread neurological damage (as opposed to very rare cases of encephalitis – much more rare than the diseases cause) has been examined by scientists. No connection was found. The data is clear: the benefits of vaccines far, far outweigh the risks.
Wait, I’m confused… either the vaccines work, and that’s why we all NEED to get them, and so then if we get them we can rest assure that we are “protected”, or I should be worried about people who don’t get them because what if my vaccine doesn’t work?
They work, or they don’t. And if you are trying to say that sometimes they don’t, well then I suppose it would be up to a parent to weigh the KNOWN risks of the vaccine when determining if they should get it or not.. considering it may not prevent any disease. If there was a possibility that you could die from something, but there is something that MAY or MAY NOT prevent that death, but by taking it, you might also die, you’d be weighing the pros/cons of every option, like any intelligent person.
Didn’t scientists discover that certain vaccines make it more likely for people to come down with other illnesses, most of which are contagious? So.. if you believe the vaccine works, it protects against ONE disease, while making you much, much more likely to get the infinite number of other diseases out there.
The Canadian press recently broke the story that new research confirms initial findings that the flu vaccine appeared to actually increase people’s risk of getting sick with H1N1, and cause more serious bouts of illness to boot.
According to the Vancouver Sun:1
“Researchers, led by Vancouver’s Dr. Danuta Skowronski, an influenza expert at the B.C. Centre for Disease Control, noticed in the early weeks of the [2009 H1N1] pandemic that people who got a flu shot for the 2008-09 winter seemed to be more likely to get infected with the pandemic virus than people who hadn’t received a flu shot. Five studies done in several provinces showed the same unsettling results.”
New Study Confirms: Flu Vaccine Really Does Increase Your Risk of Serious Pandemic Flu Illness
In March last year, ABC News reported:2
“There is renewed controversy surrounding influenza vaccines, with some studies showing people immunised against the seasonal flu might have been at greater risk during the swine flu outbreak…
‘What was a bit surprising when we looked at some of the data from Canada and Hong Kong in the last year is that people who have been vaccinated in 2008 with the seasonal or ordinary vaccine seemed to have twice the risk of getting swine flu compared to the people who hadn’t received that vaccine,’ [Professor Collignon from the Australian National University] said.
ANU microbiologists say it is the opposite of what vaccines should do.
Professor Collignon says the findings of the study also highlight the benefits for healthy people who are exposed to some illnesses. ‘Some interesting data has become available which suggests that if you get immunised with the seasonal vaccine, you get less broad protection than if you get a natural infection,’ he said.
‘It is particularly relevant for children because it is a condition they call original antigenic sin, which basically means if you get infected with a natural virus, that gives you not only protection against that virus but similar viruses or even in fact quite different flu viruses in the next year.’
‘We may be perversely setting ourselves up that if something really new and nasty comes along, that people who have been vaccinated may in fact be more susceptible compared to getting this natural infection.'” [Emphasis mine]
Truer words are hard to find in mainstream media. This is, after all, the fundamental basics of immunity against disease. Vaccine-induced immunity to disease is trying to mimic this natural mechanism, but failing miserably in doing so…
Case in point: research published in the Journal of Virology3 in November of last year also confirmed that the seasonal flu vaccine may actually weaken children’s immune systems and increase their chances of getting sick from influenza viruses not included in the vaccine. Further, when blood samples from 27 healthy, unvaccinated children and 14 children who had received an annual flu shot were compared, the former unvaccinated group naturally built up more antibodies across a wider variety of influenza strains compared to the latter vaccinated group – which is exactly what Professor Collignon referred to in the quote above.
While the initial reports of increased pandemic disease risk associated with flu vaccination were downplayed and widely dismissed as some odd Canadian phenomenon, a new study suggests this was no fluke. According to the featured article:4
“Skowronski and a group of researchers have recreated the event in ferrets. Their findings were presented… at the Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy, a major international infectious diseases conference taking place in San Francisco. Skowronski… worked with 32 ferrets, giving half the 2008 seasonal flu shot and the rest a placebo injection. The work was blinded, meaning the researchers didn’t know which ferrets received which shot. Later, all the ferrets were infected with the pandemic H1N1 virus.
The ferrets in the vaccine group became significantly sicker than the other animals, though all recovered. ‘The findings are consistent with the increased risk that we saw in the human studies,’ Skowronski said.”
So to the original author, when your kids are sick with any and all diseases that there aren’t vaccines for they can send Mommy a big THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!
My head is spinning from you speaking in circles.
I’m sorry you’re finding this so confusing. Let me try and explain simply. Most vaccines are very effective at preventing diseases, at the range of 70-99%. But no vaccine is 100% effective, just like seatbelts are not 100% safe. Nothing in life is. An unvaccinated child is at higher risk of diseases than a vaccinated one, because they do not have the excellent protection. They may therefore transmit to the disease to those too young or too sick to be vaccinated, or to those few who suffer vaccine failure.
The problem with natural exposure to the infection is that you are taking the full risks of the disease, including the possibility of death or disability. Vaccines provide you with immunity without that risk, hence they are good. The immune system is not a muscle that needs exercising: it needs exposure to the specific pathogen before it can defend against it. Vaccines do that in a low-risk manner.
Here is a simple brochure that may help explain some of the misunderstandings you have: http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/vaccines/Documents/undvacc.pdf.
I hope that helps.
Oh boy. My heads still spinning.. but I’ll just address a few of the many false statements you made. First, please bring yourself to 2013. It is not 1960. We have discovered that vaccines do not provide immunity. They force your body to create antibodies. Antibodies show that there has been exposure to a disease, but the presence of antibodies do not equal immunity. (see below) Secondly, vaccines do not provide “immunity” without risk. (Have you read a package insert? Go back and reread the side effects. DEATH happens to be one of them, along with a slew of other permanent illnesses) And third, research is showing that vaccinated children are more likely to get all non-vaccine “preventable” illnesses (One example is here : http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2013/08/swine-study-suggests-flu-vaccination-may-sometimes-backfire).
The theory behind vaccines is that they mimic infection by spurring B cells, one of the two major types of white blood cells in the immune system, to produce antibodies as part of the adaptive immune system. It is widely believed that these vaccine-induced antibodies, which are part of the more specific adaptive immune system, teach the immune system how to directly respond to an infection before the body becomes exposed to it.
But the new research highlights the fact that innate immunity plays a significant role in fighting infections, and is perhaps more important than adaptive immunity at preventing or fighting infections. In tests, adaptive immune system antibodies were shown unable to fight infection by themselves, which in essence debunks the theory that vaccine-induced antibodies serve any legitimate function in preventing or fighting off infection.
“Our findings contradict the current view that antibodies are absolutely required to survive infection with viruses like VSV (vesicular stomatitis virus), and establish an unexpected function for B cells as custodians of macrophages in antiviral immunity,” said Dr. Uldrich H. von Andrian from Harvard Medical School. “It will be important to further dissect the role of antibodies and interferons in immunity against similar viruses that attack the nervous system, such as rabies, West Nile virus, and Encephalitis.”
As explained by Dr. Russell Blaylock in a recent interview with Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, vaccines not only do not work as advertised, but they actually damage the body’s innate immunity. Rather than teach the body how to respond to infections, vaccines actually inhibit the immune system’s ability to produce TH2-type cytokines, and suppress cellular immunity, which is how the body protects itself against deadly viruses and bacteria.
So once again, the myth that vaccinations serve any sort of legitimate medical purpose has been deconstructed by breakthrough science. Regardless of whether or not the mainstream medical community wants to admit it, pro-vaccine ideology is increasingly finding itself in the dustheap of outmoded pseudoscience.
Sources for this article include:
What you’re saying is a little dangerous, and mixed with lots of medical jargon that makes the argument sound very intelligent, while still making broad generalizations. I think you misinterpreted this a bit. “We have discovered that vaccines do not provide immunity.” How? Even if everything else you’re proposing is true, that antibodies from vaccines inhibit some of the T cell response to viruses, then that would only mean they impact immunity to certain viruses, not to the antigen they are against (so in other words, you got the smallpox vaccine which protected you from smallpox, but possibly affected your response to other encountered antigens). Yet you still were protected from smallpox, so isn’t that immunity?
Yes, some vaccines make the body produce antibodies via B cells. Yes, it is these antibodies (in combination with other factors in the body) that show “exposure” to the disease (whether by contracting the disease or getting a vaccine). Over time, some of these antibodies wane, which is why, for some diseases, booster doses are necessary every so often. Some vaccines also activate T cells. There are also certain strains of bacteria and viruses that the vaccines don’t protect against. But to say that this doesn’t equal immunity is a generalization- yes, there are some people for which vaccines don’t “take.” But by your argument even natural exposure to the disease doesn’t provide immunity. How do you explain kids only getting chicken pox once, and the idea of chicken pox parties before the vaccine so that kids could get chicken pox and get it over with?
Yes, there are risks with vaccines. No one is denying that. There are risks with every medicine, every car trip, every time you cross the street. So let’s move on.
“Research is showing that vaccinated children are more likely to get all non-vaccine “preventable” illnesses” ALL non-vaccine preventable illnesses? Every single one? Your linked article only discusses influenza.
Yes, both innate (the immune system you’re essentially born to have) and adaptive (the immune system you get from being exposed to antigens either via infection or vaccines) immunity are important to the body’s response to an exposure. They work together to help fight infection – which is perhaps your point when you say “In tests, adaptive immune system antibodies were shown unable to fight infections by themselves” – because I agree, antibodies aren’t the ONLY thing necessary to fight infections. There are chemicals in the body and cell lines involved in that too. But going on to make possibly the most outlandish and overexaggerated statement, “which in essence debunks the theory that vaccine-induced antibodies serve any legitimate function in preventing or fighting off infection” is ludicrous. Of course they serve a legitimate function. Your statement is trying to disprove everything we know about the immune system!
I’m sorry if this is coming off rude, but your misinterpretation of the literature terrifies me because of some of the “facts” you are trying to give to the general public. I am not trying to undermine anyone in any way, but if you haven’t gone through medical school or extensive studies of the immune system, it is difficult to not just take this at face value and believe “oh that makes sense, antibodies do nothing and make the whole immune system worse.” I don’t know a thing about engineering, so if somebody put a similar comment about engineering principles, I would just say “oh sure that makes sense.” I am merely trying to correct the VERY misleading “facts” in this comment.
Your part quoting Dr. von Andrian again cites one disease example- that antibodies are not required to survive infection with VSV. That doesn’t mean they have no role in the disease, the statement just says they aren’t necessary for survival. And that doesn’t speak to any other disease process for that matter, just VSV. I haven’t studied VSV as he has, so I am not even going to comment on whether this is valid or not. But I think you need to be careful in the broad generalizations of what one person said about one disease process and how that applies to what numerous experts have discovered about the immune system as a whole. Antibodies don’t have a role in protection against some diseases. But they do have a role in others.
And lastly, in your last paragraph, while discussing cellular immunity protecting the body against deadly viruses and bacteria, you’re partly right. Different parts of the immune system combat different pathogens. Some parts work on viruses, some work on bacteria, some work on fungi, and so on. It also matters whether a pathogen is intracellular (inside the cell) or extracellular (outside the cell) as to which part of the immune system goes after the pathogen. Think of HIV. Maybe you’ve heard people say their “T cells” are low (a reflection of their cellular immunity). While some of them have problems with B cells as well, some have totally normal B cells. The problem is with their T cells, not their antibodies to disease. You can’t use all of this interchangeably, because the immune system is much more complex than that. Also, using strong words such as “inhibit” and “deadly” in these arguments are misleading as well. By that argument, since I got vaccines and therefore got antibodies, my cellular immunity is “inhibited” and I should have likely already died from some deadly virus.
For anyone who wants to learn a little more about vaccine immunology, a quick google search provided a fairly basic book chapter about it that looks pretty good. It still gets a little confusing, so you may only want to read the first few pages, and I didn’t even read it in its entirety, but I’m sharing it because the first few charts/tables are GREAT and help make this a little more understandable. http://www.who.int/immunization/documents/Elsevier_Vaccine_immunology.pdf
Again, sorry if this came off as rude :-/
I do urge you to read the short brochure above, because you are just wrong. Innate immunity is important: it’s our first line of defense. But it’s not absolute, or people would never get sick: pathogens do make it past them. Then the immune system has to fight. Vaccines teach the immune system to recognize pathogens, giving it the ability to react immediately, by exposing you to parts of the virus or bacteria that induce an immune response (or to a inactivated or weakened virus) without putting you at risk of disease. Your body reacts the same way it would to a pathogen getting in: with an immune response. The “widely held” beliefs you mention are not held by scientists or immunologists or doctors. I linked above to an introductory text – a recent introductory text.
As to your comments about adverse events – that’s a natural misconception by those who are not familiar with inserts. Inserts are legal documents, and one of the requirement is to report any adverse event, whether or not it’s connected to the vaccine causally. That’s why you’ll see report of motor vehicle accidents and drowning. Yes, people do die after a vaccine; people die after washing their teeth too. That does not mean either caused the deaths. You can die from a vaccine, but it’s super rare. A lot more rare than from a vaccine preventable disease. To help you, again, here is an explanation on how to read inserts. http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vaccine-package-inserts-debunking-myths/
It is undeniable that vaccines have an overall beneficial result, but unfortunately there are negatives associated with them also. Similar to iodizing the salt.:) Non-vaccinating individuals can be primarily concerned with the fact that vaccinations are never taken off the list. The fact that many diseases are more likely to be caught from the vaccine than from the world at large suggest that maybe the over 50 inoculations they require people to get should be pared down, don’t you think?
We vaccinate children against 14 diseases. Not 50. Which would you remove? And no, not many diseases are “more likely to be caught from the vaccine than from the world at large”. Among other things, many vaccines do not contain live viruses.
again, the question is, what wouldn’t you vaccinate against? https://www.facebook.com/RtAVM/photos_stream
Lots of talk about autism. Have heard some people state that “we don’t know what causes autism.” That is false. Rubella is an accepted, known cause of autism. This has been well documented for decades. And.. where are these babies being exposed to rubella? Come on people, it’s not rocket science.
“… rubella (congenital rubella syndrome) is one of the few proven causes of autism.“ Walter A. Orenstein, M.D. US as Assistant Surgeon General, Director National Immunization Program in a letter to the UK’s Chief Medical Officer 15 February 2002.
“rubella virus is one of the few known causes of autism.” US Center for Disease Control.
“FAQs (frequently asked questions) about MMR Vaccine & Autism”
“rubella can cause autism” The Pediatrician’s Role in the Diagnosis and Management of Autistic Spectrum Disorder in Children – PEDIATRICS Vol. 107 No. 5 May 2001
Chess, S. Autism in children with congenital rubella. J Autism Child Schizophr. 1, 33-47 (1971).
Chess S. Follow-up report on autism in congenital rubella. J Autism Child Schizophr. 1977;7:69 –81
Ziring PR. Congenital rubella: the teenage years. Pediatr Ann. 1997;6: 762–770
Doesn’t everybody know rubella is a known cause of autism? That’s like, very old news. I laugh every time I read “we don’t know what causes autism”. Rubella and encephalopathy.
HRSA official, David Bowman — “The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered to compensate, any case based on a determination that autism was actually caused by vaccines. We have compensated cases in which children exhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathy may be accompanied by a medical progression of an array of symptoms including autistic behavior, autism, or seizures.”
Now if we could only figure out what causes encephalopathy….
Rubella is one of the few known causes of autism – if a mother contracts it while pregnant. Another reason to be grateful for vaccines, that prevent Congenital Rubella Syndrome. Encephalopathy is not a cause of autism: the best evidence we have is that autism is caused prenatally, with many complex genetic causes.
We did compensate children for encephalitis and encephalopathy after vaccines. Of course, vaccine preventable diseases cause these complications at much higher rates – e.g. the MMR has one per million or less cases of encephalitis, compared to one per thousand for measles. But neither of those conditions is autism. Many children with encephalopathy do not have autism and many children with autism never had encephalopathy. It’s not a surprise, given the rates of autism, that some children with encephalopathy end with it, but that does not show a causal connection.
The U.S. has never compensated a child on a theory that vaccines caused her or his autism.
We should be grateful for the MMR vaccine? A LIVE vaccine which sheds (therefore by agreeing to it, you are a walking contagious disease carrier for up to 28 days), and pregnant women are exposed to? No wonder why the autism rate keeps increasing.
If those pregnant women only had immunity, true immunity, to rubella.. being exposed to recently MMR vaccinated individuals wouldn’t be an issue. But alas, it is rare for someone to truly be immune to rubella today, as most were vaccinated and did not acquire the generally benign disease naturally. Most adults also do not receive boosters. So now we do have to worry about pregnant women coming into contact with rubella… someone really should have thought the whole vaccine thing through all the way!
Lilly: “Although a woman can excrete rubella vaccine virus in breast milk and transmit the virus to her infant, the infection remains asymptomatic (202-205). Otherwise, persons who receive MMR or its component vaccines do not transmit measles, rubella, or mumps vaccine viruses (206,207). Thus, MMR vaccine can be administered safely to susceptible children or other persons with household contacts who are pregnant to help protect these pregnant women from exposure to wild rubella virus.” http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00053391.htm.
MMR does not shed to pregnant women. And by protecting them, if they were vaccinated as children, and by protecting children from rubella, it protects them.
I know my wife is a teacher (kindergarten) and most of her students get a chickenpox booster prior to starting school – in September she had a confirmed case in her classroom (big surprise there!). She is pregnant. Luckily, she had the pox as a child and her obgyn said she has absolutely nothing to worry about as far as being exposed. Apparently getting the chickenpox while pregnant can cause horrific birth defects. Which got me thinking… now that they give the chickenpox vaccine… what will happen to all those pregnant women who have no true immunity from acquiring it naturally?
It’s a crazy world we live in.
Luckily, MMR provides full immunity from rubella. ” Follow-up studies indicate that one dose of vaccine confers long-term, probably lifelong, protection.” As you can see from the fact that Congenital Rubella Syndrome have dropped to only a few rare cases: “An average of 5–6 CRS cases have been reported annually since 1980. … Since 1997, the mothers of the majority of infants with CRS were Hispanic women, many of whom were born in Latin American or Caribbean countries where rubella vaccine is routinely not used or has only recently begun to be used.” http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/rubella.pdf
With all due respect, when a virus sheds, it does not discriminate against those who are pregnant. (LOL) Anyone who comes into contact with it may be susceptible. Pregnant women are known to be susceptible to illness because of weakened immune system.
Shedding is when the live virus that is injected via vaccine, moves through the human body and comes back out in the feces, droplets from the nose, or saliva from the mouth. Anyone who takes care of the child could potentially contract the disease for some time after that child has received certain live vaccines. This was a huge problem with the oral polio vaccine, and was one of the reasons why it was taken off the market in the US
From the CDC website:
Rarely, shed vaccine viruses can be transmitted from vaccine recipients to unvaccinated persons.
Measles illness during pregnancy leads to increased rates of premature labor, spontaneous abortion, and low birth weight among affected infants (2-5). Birth defects, with no definable pattern of malformation, have been reported among infants born to women infected with measles during pregnancy, but measles infection has not been confirmed as the cause of the malformations.
Measles can be severe and prolonged among immunocompromised persons, particularly those who have certain leukemias, lymphomas, or human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection. Among these persons, measles may occur without the typical rash and a patient may shed measles virus for several weeks after the acute illness (6,7).
Rubella Vaccine – Excretion of small amounts of live attenuated rubella virus from the nose and throat has occurred in the majority of susceptible individuals 7-28 days after vaccination. Transmission of the vaccine virus via breast milk has been documented.
And I don’t know about the effectiveness of the MMR in regards to rubella, although I have heard it is one of the most effective vaccinations. However, after working at a doctor’s office which ran very specific blood work on our patients, I can tell you that the MAJORITY of our patients with autoimmune disorders showed no detectable antibodies to rubella (and hardly anything else for that matter!). Mumps antibodies were always detected, and sometimes chickenpox. These were FULLY VACCINATED INDIVIDUALS.
Our patients who were not suffering from autoimmune disorders did show high antibody levels for almost all vaccine-preventable diseases. But they were few and far between… allergies, asthma, there are so many autoimmune disorders.
Claire, if you go back to the link I provided you would see that the measles virus in MMR had never been known to shed. The only one of the MMR virus ever seen to be transmitted is the rubella virus only from nursing mother to nursing infant – and then it did not cause the disease, only provided immunity. Please read the link.
Some of the resurgence of certain diseases is not necessarily due to people not vaccinating, it is due to “vaccine failure”. And yes, there are studies and science behind this. This is especially true with the Whooping Cough vaccine.
If you don’t support fear mongering, stop doing it. Simple.
I have a variety of other comments I could post, but I will settle for a mere: watch where you point the finger when you talk about “fear mongering”. You have added a nice scary photo right at the top of your post (and the ONLY photo in your post) – one of a severely crippled youngster. I’m sure that strikes the fear of God in any parent reading your post. Careful with the ironies in ‘journalism’.
Note: putting “here ya go” above that image seems very rash to me and as though you may have lost some sensitivity around the reality of the debilitating diseases that we fight (with no cure) on a daily basis: cancer, aids, etc… Diseases that are “out of control” for this time in history. Diseases with no real answer as to where they are stemming from. Food for thought.
This is a good video to watch. I wish people would inform themselves before stating years old facts. There has been an established link between vaccines and autism, or let’s just call it “autism like symptoms”. We can bend facts and alter reality as much as we want, but when the head of the CDC has to admit there is a link, the vaccine courts are paying out millions to vaccine damaged children and as part of the settlement they are not allowed to discuss it, I have to start questioning what I am being told.
Nowhere here did CDC officials say vaccines cause autism. And a random set of quotes taken out of contexts is really not a good substitute to actual evidence. Hannah Poling, as mentioned above, was not compensated because vaccines caused her autism – she had a rare mitochondrial disorder that may have been triggered by the vaccines. But it could just as easily have been triggered by a disease.
Mitochondrial Diseases are not “rare”, most people carry some of these genes that do not express themselves until triggered, but yes these genes can be triggered by a vaccine, especially if given before the immune system is mature. Vaccines in these cases are not the direct cause but they are the trigger, so in my mind still where the problem lies.
Mitochondrial disorders like Hannah Poling had are very rare. “Kent also points out that mitochondrial diseases are very rare – just 5.7 per 100,000 individuals worldwide – and the subsets of disorders linked with autism even rarer. ” http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19726464.100-autism-payout-reignites-vaccine-controversy.html?full=true#bx264641B1. That article also covers the case in some details, pointing out that the causal connection to the vaccine is in doubt (though the government conceded it’s likely enough to justify compensation). See also, on this case: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/10/the-hannah-poling-case-and-the-rebrandin/.
More and more people today have mitochondrial dysfunction or disease – the numbers are climbing. It is NOT “rare”, even though some may try to claim it is, in a lot of cases doctors don’t know enough about it to even recognize it when they see it.
I notice you brought zero evidence for this unsupported claim.
Mitochondiral disorders are often genetic. My family has had some issues. My sister is severely physically handicapped, my cousin has had minor issues but her daughter recently passed away from serious complications. My whole family has been tested and went through genetic counseling. There was no mention of vaccine involvement. Most of us have some percentage of mutated mitochondira although most have no symptoms.
Yes, some people have these genes and no symptoms because the genes have not been triggered or turned on. The trigger can be many things, vaccines being one of the many.
Hi! I am adamantly pro-vaccine and I love this article.
Question though – can I have your source for the 900 children dying in Charleston, SC, in one year from measles? I would like to share it on my facebook wall. Thanks!
I’m finding a lot of the ignorance on here rather hilarious. If anything the comments prove to be some excellent comic relief. Conspiracy Theorists are cute.
Dear good for a laugh, so nice you find us amusing. Perhaps a visit with families whose lives have been forever altered would wipe that ridiculous smile off your face. Go back to Facebook for your amusement.
Omg, we should TOTALLY trust the vaccine makers. After all, they just want to make us healthy!! Oh wait.. didn’t some of the manufacturers get charged with fraud (knowingly promoting drugs for various ailments when they already had the proof that the drugs did not work, oh and also PAYING doctors to prescribe these medications) and had to pay damages?
DRUG COMPANY PLEADS GUILTY TO HEALTH FRAUD
You literally have to be blind to believe that big pharma wants to help you. WAKE UP!
Luckily, vaccine safety isn’t left to pharmaceutical company, but is carefully monitored and researched by government agencies and university researchers.
I don’t trust the people CREATING the product if they are fraudulent. I don’t care who “looks it over”. End of story.
I hope, then, you don’t drive cars – almost every car company had a scandal at some point, don’t eat food unless you grow it yourself – to remind you, we had recalls of spinach, tomato, and variety of meats – and so on. No fraud related to vaccines has been found. There is no evidence supporting serious safety concerns about vaccines, and plenty of evidence on the other side. Refusing the best modern medicine has to offer you for protection against very dangerous diseases because of unfounded fears and blanket mistrust in the companies is simply problematic.
I would not call the list of side effects in the package insert “unfounded fears”. And if you have ever met a vaccine injured child (and I believe you have – but you don’t realize, because you haven’t learned yet that vaccines play a large role in causing diabetes, allergies, asthma, and cancer) you would understand.
Also – the vaccine manufacturers “accidentally” put a cancer causing virus in the old polio vaccines. That is a serious safety concern regarding vaccines, is it not? They also did not list “this vaccine contains a cancer causing virus” on the package insert at the time so, to me, that is fraud.
In 1961, SV40 was discovered by Dr. Bernice Eddy of the National Institute of Health, Division of Biologics when she took the material used to grow polio vaccines and injected it into hamsters.Upon the discovery that SV40 was an animal carcinogen that had found its way into the polio vaccines, a new federal law was passed in 1961 that required that no vaccines contain this virus. However, this law did not require that SV40 contaminated vaccines be thrown away or that the contaminated seed material (used to make all polio vaccines for the next four decades) be discarded. As a result, known SV40 contaminated vaccines were injected into children up until 1963.
And if you DIDN’T see this on the news.. well then what does that tell you about the media??? WAKE UP AND THINK FOR YOURSELVES!!!
On a happier note, if you’ve made it down this far, I discovered a kickstarter project working to make 50 critically ill children authors of their own books. I think it’s pretty awesome, I just backed it, and I think you should too. I think we all agree we care about this nation’s children, no matter what side of the vaccine debate you’re on. Let’s help give these awesome kids a voice.
Just food for thought:
I suggest everyone take a look at the vaccination schedules and then tell everyone if they really think they or their children are really still covered by vaccinations. Look at the extreme difference between Australia, UK and US. WHY is the US vaccination schedule so much more rigorous than the UK and Australia?
How many of you living in the US, and were vaccinated as children keep up with the boosters vaccinations? I would hazard to guess that not many do. If I am right then there are far less people covered by vaccinations than most think. I am one of those, I was vaccinated as a child in the US, I was not given any boosters until I entered the military, then never again as an adult and I’m 53 years old now. I never knew about boosters until a few years ago, the doctors I went to see throughout my life never asked me if I was up to date on my boosters, and they still don’t ask. So technically I’m not really protected and haven’t been for much of my life.
People and children die every day. Our bodies were built in such a way as to learn to defend itself against illness and diseases. Humans are part of the “survival of the fittest” or “natural selection” theory of evolution. Illness and diseases are a part of the weeding out the weak. This is just part of life in the animal kingdom. We as humans try to thwart this by creating artificial means of enhancing the body to try and keep our weak from dying which just causes our gene pool to become weaker instead of stronger. How we choose to live says a lot about who we are and what we can or cannot accept in life. I’m a realist and a naturalist. I believe in letting the body learn as it needs to learn. If I die because my body cannot fight off illness or disease then so be it. That is what life is about. I teach my child the same.
I will never condemn or criticize another person for their choices only they can decide what is best for them. The best I can hope for is that others will do the same and stop hammering against other’s choices. We will always find people, doctors, scientists, etc who will not agree with our viewpoint and facts can be manipulated to support each viewpoint. I work with facts every day and I know how this can and is done. There is no right or wrong decision. Sometimes vaccines help, sometimes they harm, sometimes things happen that were unexpected or unexplainable. I live with what is given to me every day and I choose what I want to believe. Stand up for what you believe but don’t beat each other up over not believing the same thing. Life is too short, live it with compassion and love.
Really good article about how vaccines cause brain damage. Lots of good sources at the end. Makes so much sense, and goes right along with all of the evidence from the court cases that have been compensated, as well as all the “anti-vax” studies that have been done. The scariest part for my family was the bit about universal healthcare at the bottom. Time to wake up and realize what is going on. If you have the time to read, please do. God Bless you all and your children!
conclusion: “Exposure to the MMR vaccine was unlikely to be associated with:…”
UNLIKELY doesn’t sound very definitive to me, sounds like most other published studies that I have read neither here nor there conclusions. Which seem kind of useless when you are looking for a straight answer. I am not anti-vaccination. I would like to challenge someone to post a link to a recent study or cite one which concludes that A) vaccinations DO cause or contribute to ASD via adverse reaction or B) one that concludes it does not. I’m not very interested in opinions at this point. I would like to devise my opinion based on research. And then I will keep my opinion to myself unless asked and never online.
I understand your concern, but science will never say “not associated” because that’s unscientific – you can’t prove a negative (how do you prove that you can’t fly? Even after the 1000 time you jump out of the window, you cannot assume next time you won’t fly). But after study after study after study looked for the connection and found none, we the laypeople can conclude there is no connection to be found. We have dozens of studies on vaccines and autism, looks for connection. They found none. Zero. The combination of all these studies is very, very powerful evidence that there is none.
All those that are pro vaccine – stop and think for a minute . . .
WHAT IF it were the other way around – what if you were NOT ALLOWED to get vaccines, your kids could not attend school IF THEY HAD A VACCINE, what then????? Or is that what you are afraid will happen in the future when more is known about vaccines and exactly what they do??
I bet you would be all for “choice” if the shoe were on the other foot.
I am okay with those that want vaccines making that choice for themselves, BUT don’t force it on me.
And don’t claim that those that are not vaccinated are making the rest of the world sick, if you feel that vaccines are the answer then you have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated, if you trust in vaccines then you should be protected.
There are two sides – there is “science” on both sides – some that are inconclusive, some that favor the use of vaccines and some that link vaccines to side effects, and yes, autism. They are all out there and they do contradict each other – that is why this is such a hot topic.
The people that experienced a vaccine problem with themselves or their children are NOT imagining it, they are not stupid or uneducated or uninformed, they are looking at the studies and all the information and sometimes doing even more research then everyone else because they have experienced it themselves.
We know that there is a huge problem with vaccines and over vaccination in our dogs (yes there are studies and science to back this up) and autoimmune disease, so why would it be any different for humans????
I know I don’t want to be one of the sheep that just follows what conventional medicine tells us to do and is brainwashed into thinking they have all the answers, they have been wrong so many times that I don’t trust them anymore and I want to do my own research and make my own decision – I learned the hard way.
These kind of posts are always interesting to me. I grew up with a mother who decided (by my teen years) to not get booster shots/vaccines based on the recommendations of a doctor, her own research, and my own personal situation regarding vaccines.
I was born with Tourette’s Syndrome, fortunately I didn’t display any symptoms, until I got my vaccinations done at the age of 8 and my Tourette’s, which before seemed to lay dormant, were (in a metaphorical sense) seemingly “activated”. There had been reports recently about vaccines being related to Autism, and some doctors think it could affect other spectrums as well.
This is the story as I remember it, I was very young and could have my facts skewed.
But as a free thinking adult now I have go ask myself what I think regarding vaccines. Because IF vaccines are related to any spectrum disorder then do I want my kids having them (when I have kids), because I don’t want it to make their symptoms worse. But I also can’t ignore the irrefutable evidence that vaccines help protect against diseases.
I don’t think anyone anti-vaccine who does their research would say they aren’t effective, but I could understand not wanting to use them because their May be (unknown) risks…my Tourette’s experience behind a shred of personal expereience.
Obviously is rather mine, and others’, children be safe from a disease, but do I want to risk that they will have worsened Tourretes symptoms from a disease they may be statistically rare to contract?
So then is it alright for an individual to say that if they have history in their family of a spectrum disorder that they have good cause to take caution regarding vaccines? And contrarily that people who are “clear” of such disorders should have nothing to worry about?
I’ll probably never check to see if anyone replies to this, but I just want to pose any questions for anyone to think about. I am still indifferent and (relatively) neutral. I trust my mother and she would only do what SW believes is best for me, but I also believe in science. And science says vaccines are good…but doesn’t day it couldn’t be bad either right?
what ever happened with better safe than sorry???? We buy car insurance and life insurance just in case. Horrible comparison i know…even IF MMR was linked with autism (which I do not believe) I would rather have autism over blind deaf dead children! Just sayin!
I encourage those in favor of vaccines to consider the risk/benefit ratio. Look at how many shots we are told to give our children now and how many we were given as children. There are so many unanswered questions. Think about all the neurotoxic chemicals, preservatives, all the various strains of viruses that are being injected into a child or baby’s blood simultaneously. That child/baby does not have a fully developed nervous or immune system to be able to handle this onslaught of foreign materials.
“As in the blood, so in the man- he is just as weak, just as strong.” Hippocrates.
No vaccine is injected directly into the bloodstream (someone else said this earlier as well, but that was about 1000 comments ago, lol); they are either intramuscular (into the muscle), subcutaneous (into the fat layer above the muscle and beneath the skin) or oral (given by mouth). Intranasal (given up the nose) vaccines also exist. Just FYI 🙂
I have one comment to post, first of all if something is not an epidemic, then why vaccinate? My oldest son at 18 months got very very sick, rushed him to hospital where they told me he had meningitis, they did a spinal tap, which was awful for an 18 month old to go through, could hear my little guy screaming down the hall. They probed him with needles, put a bag on his little penis and pinned it down, it was an terrible experience. what where the findings???? He had a terrible reaction to the pertussis vaccine!!!! He almost died!!!!! Then in high school they give out the hep B vaccine, once again he screamed through the nigh with leg pains, he couldn\t even walk!!! now the give out flue vaccines??? Hello, our immune system is meant to build up and fight the common cold and flue. I have seen so many people very ill after the flue vaccine
I read everything you wrote and you still need to do more research it is clear to me you either don’t have it all or are misinformed STILL. As a non-vaxer that is the thing we are open minded and listen to each side of the story to determine what is right for our families. I am just Mom ,but I am also am very educated person who has a team of Doctors who support what we won’t inject into our child’s body. I also want you to know that if it were not for them I would not be as fully aware of the con’s and maybe would have been on a delay schedule, the world is finally “waking up” your just not on the same page yet. You should stick by your image photo of keeping your finger over your